Gun Legislation

[homerfobe]

Christian school, college grad, football player, Naval Reserve lieutenant (O-3) who was honorably discharged, Iraq Campaign Medal (Bahrain), Navy Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon, Navy Expert Pistol Shot Medal, LAPD - law abiding citizen until the moment he pulled the trigger.

It appears that the "trigger" was first pulled by the police chief who set off this rampage by apparently making false allegations against him that got him fired, and the system refusing to follow up on his requests for a review. Now, it seems they're going to take a "second look" at the case. Something akin to a horse and a barn door comes to mind.

[rstrong]

Christian school, college grad, football player, Naval Reserve lieutenant (O-3) who was honorably discharged, Iraq Campaign Medal (Bahrain), Navy Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon, Navy Expert Pistol Shot Medal, LAPD - law abiding citizen until the moment he pulled the trigger.

It appears that the "trigger" was first pulled by the police chief who set off this rampage by apparently making false allegations against him that got him fired, and the system refusing to follow up on his requests for a review. Now, it seems they're going to take a "second look" at the case. Something akin to a horse and a barn door comes to mind.

So that was why he had a list of up to 40 enemies? And went so far as to murder children of people on that list? And murdered apparently unconnected police officers? Were the maids he tied up at the cabin part of the system that persecuted him?

Even for a vile, submoronic little bigot, you post some stupid things sometimes.

[O Really]

"Law-abiding citizen" for 68 years. Guns legally purchased and owned. Three people dead, including the shooter.

http://news.msn.com/us/bitter-dispute-l ... e-shooting

And another "law-abiding citizen" until he pulled the trigger... http://news.msn.com/us/texas-man-charge ... kills-sons

"Law-abiding citizen" with legal guns mows down apparently random victims...
http://www.austindailyherald.com/2013/0 ... n-st-paul/

Here's a list of school shootings since 1996. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html Most of them (more than 20 before I gave up counting) were by kids not legally allowed to have a gun, or at least a handgun. They got them somewhere. Explain again why those gun owners weren't negligent?

[homerfobe]

Christian school, college grad, football player, Naval Reserve lieutenant (O-3) who was honorably discharged, Iraq Campaign Medal (Bahrain), Navy Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon, Navy Expert Pistol Shot Medal, LAPD - law abiding citizen until the moment he pulled the trigger.

It appears that the "trigger" was first pulled by the police chief who set off this rampage by apparently making false allegations against him that got him fired, and the system refusing to follow up on his requests for a review. Now, it seems they're going to take a "second look" at the case. Something akin to a horse and a barn door comes to mind.

So that was why he had a list of up to 40 enemies? And went so far as to murder children of people on that list? And murdered apparently unconnected police officers? Were the maids he tied up at the cabin part of the system that persecuted him?

Even for a vile, submoronic little bigot, you post some stupid things sometimes.

Even for a vile, submoronic idiotic moron, I'm surprised you weren't intelligent enough to pick up on what the gist of his rampage was about. I didn't say I was defending his actions, but the refusal of the system to even bother to address his complaints is what pissed him off. Anyone's mind can snap. Given his background and present mindset, he apparently felt he could handle it by
exacting his own revenge. Ever hear of the term 'going postal'? dumbass Canadian know-it-all.

[Boatrocker]

Christian school, college grad, football player, Naval Reserve lieutenant (O-3) who was honorably discharged, Iraq Campaign Medal (Bahrain), Navy Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon, Navy Expert Pistol Shot Medal, LAPD - law abiding citizen until the moment he pulled the trigger.

It appears that the "trigger" was first pulled by the police chief who set off this rampage by apparently making false allegations against him that got him fired, and the system refusing to follow up on his requests for a review. Now, it seems they're going to take a "second look" at the case. Something akin to a horse and a barn door comes to mind.

So that was why he had a list of up to 40 enemies? And went so far as to murder children of people on that list? And murdered apparently unconnected police officers? Were the maids he tied up at the cabin part of the system that persecuted him?

Even for a vile, submoronic little bigot, you post some stupid things sometimes.

Even for a vile, submoronic idiotic moron, I'm surprised you weren't intelligent enough to pick up on what the gist of his rampage was about. I didn't say I was defending his actions, but the refusal of the system to even bother to address his complaints is what pissed him off. Anyone's mind can snap. Given his background and present mindset, he apparently felt he could handle it by
exacting his own revenge. Ever hear of the term 'going postal'? dumbass Canadian know-it-all.

So, it wasn't his fault- the devil make him do it.

[Mad American]

"Law-abiding citizen" for 68 years. Guns legally purchased and owned. Three people dead, including the shooter.

http://news.msn.com/us/bitter-dispute-l ... e-shooting

Kidnapped his grandkids

And another "law-abiding citizen" until he pulled the trigger... http://news.msn.com/us/texas-man-charge ... kills-sons

Children killed by drunk

"Law-abiding citizen" with legal guns mows down apparently random victims...
http://www.austindailyherald.com/2013/0 ... n-st-paul/

"Not aware of any mental issues"

Come on O really you can do better than that. You expect any thinking person to believe that having your children ran down by a drunk driver, or kidnapped across international boundaries would not have a bearing on a person's mental status?

Here's a list of school shootings since 1996. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html Most of them (more than 20 before I gave up counting) were by kids not legally allowed to have a gun, or at least a handgun. They got them somewhere. Explain again why those gun owners weren't negligent?

The burden of proof is on you to show that the owners WERE negligent. Since you are so interested in looking things up.....why don't you look up the number of "law abiding citizens turned murderer" and give us the number as a percentage of total gun ownership?

[O Really]

As hard as it is to believe, I think Homo has the right perspective here. We counsel clients all the time that the most dangerous legal thing they can do is to fire somebody, because at the very least they're de-stabilizing the employee's life and that of his family. If the fired guy tends to hold grudges anyway, the grudge builds as long as it keeps getting fed. Everything bad that happened to the guy after he got fired, he probably blamed on the firing. Not everybody snaps, and not everybody who snaps goes on a Rambo-rampage, but the potential is there in a large part of the population. The story doesn't excuse him, but it does explain it.

[Boatrocker]

. . . We counsel clients all the time that the most dangerous legal thing they can do is to fire somebody, because at the very least they're de-stabilizing the employee's life and that of his family . . . .

Out of curiousity, what alternatives do you counsel, if any? I have seen more than one unwritten-but-still-inviolable corporate policy that effectively stated, Do not fire unless absolutely necessary;instead, fuck with them till they quit.

[O Really]

The burden of proof is on you to show that the owners WERE negligent. Since you are so interested in looking things up.....why don't you look up the number of "law abiding citizens turned murderer" and give us the number as a percentage of total gun ownership?

Absent any evidence to the contrary, their negligence is self-evident. Not that there couldn't be evidence to the contrary. Maybe some of the kids pulled out their fingernails until they gave up the combination to their safe and told them where the ammunition is. Or maybe they left their guns unsecured. Who knows. But it's not an occurrence I'd let go with an "opps."

I'd guess that percentage would be very low. So what?

[rstrong]

Even for a vile, submoronic little bigot, you post some stupid things sometimes.

I didn't say I was defending his actions, but the refusal of the system to even bother to address his complaints is what pissed him off.

When most people get pissed off they don't go on a shooting spree, hunting and killing the children of those who pissed them off and killing other people at random.

And yet you obviously think such behavior gives credibility to HIS claims of why he was fired.

[O Really]

. . . We counsel clients all the time that the most dangerous legal thing they can do is to fire somebody, because at the very least they're de-stabilizing the employee's life and that of his family . . . .

Out of curiousity, what alternatives do you counsel, if any? I have seen more than one unwritten-but-still-inviolable corporate policy that effectively stated, Do not fire unless absolutely necessary;instead, fuck with them till they quit.

Woof! That's some lawyer's new boat fund just waiting to be collected.

No, the point is to handle all aspects of the situation in a way that has a good chance of them going away thinking at least you were fair. That means no surprises, clear warnings, consistent policies, prior review by objective person prior to discharge, courteous discharge meeting, make sure they get what they're entitled to (vacation pay, etc.), and the opportunity to have their questions answered.

[O Really]

There may be some real possibilities in this negligence line of thought...
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/20670676/201 ... lers-death

And that's even in gun-crazy Florida.

[Boatrocker]

. . . We counsel clients all the time that the most dangerous legal thing they can do is to fire somebody, because at the very least they're de-stabilizing the employee's life and that of his family . . . .

Out of curiousity, what alternatives do you counsel, if any? I have seen more than one unwritten-but-still-inviolable corporate policy that effectively stated, Do not fire unless absolutely necessary;instead, fuck with them till they quit.

Woof! That's some lawyer's new boat fund just waiting to be collected.

That's prob'ly why they forced us to sign arbitration agreements.

No, the point is to handle all aspects of the situation in a way that has a good chance of them going away thinking at least you were fair. That means no surprises, clear warnings, consistent policies, prior review by objective person prior to discharge, courteous discharge meeting, make sure they get what they're entitled to (vacation pay, etc.), and the opportunity to have their questions answered.

Makes sense. But I have never, ever, ever worked for a company where such was practised.

[O Really]

Makes sense. But I have never, ever, ever worked for a company where such was practised.

Understood. And that's what keeps my toys paid for.

[Mad American]

There may be some real possibilities in this negligence line of thought...
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/20670676/201 ... lers-death

And that's even in gun-crazy Florida.

Yes, sounds like there might be some negligence...or extreme stupidity...in this case. I'd say it was pretty obvious that gun was stored, loaded. Add to that the fact that it was in a close within reach of a two year old. :-0?> Yes, I'll give negligence on that. What about teens though? Lets think about young adults, more than capable of discerning right from wrong and making cognizant decisions. Should a parent be held responsible for the actions of the teen? Lets say the guns are not in a safe but rather a locked glass front case (VERY popular BTW) and the ammo in another locked drawer yet the teen still breaks the glass, jimmies the lock, steals, loads the gun, and kills. Is that the fault of the parent?

[O Really]

... Lets say the guns are not in a safe but rather a locked glass front case (VERY popular BTW) and the ammo in another locked drawer yet the teen still breaks the glass, jimmies the lock, steals, loads the gun, and kills. Is that the fault of the parent?

In my opinion, probably not, assuming there were no previous indications of problems with the kid. I don't think that was the case in Newtown, however.

But, also in my opinion, I don't think a glass front case is much security. I certainly wouldn't find it a secure place to store a $100,000 piece of jewelry or some gold bars. Maybe it's not real glass? Maybe Lexan?

Suppose you found yourself with a cannister of Ebola. What steps would you take to keep it out of the wrong hands, including your kids, and how would the level of security you gave it compare to what you give your guns?

[Mad American]

... Lets say the guns are not in a safe but rather a locked glass front case (VERY popular BTW) and the ammo in another locked drawer yet the teen still breaks the glass, jimmies the lock, steals, loads the gun, and kills. Is that the fault of the parent?

In my opinion, probably not, assuming there were no previous indications of problems with the kid. I don't think that was the case in Newtown, however.

But, also in my opinion, I don't think a glass front case is much security. I certainly wouldn't find it a secure place to store a $100,000 piece of jewelry or some gold bars. Maybe it's not real glass? Maybe Lexan?

Suppose you found yourself with a cannister of Ebola. What steps would you take to keep it out of the wrong hands, including your kids, and how would the level of security you gave it compare to what you give your guns?

I'll agree a glass front case is not very secure. However, it is more secure than sitting in a closet corner or hanging in a wall rack, yes it is real glass, and the gun "cabinets" are very popular. Frankly the cost of safes pushes many "common" gun owners away. A quality safe is going to start around $1,000, that is a chunk for someone just getting by. I used a gun cabinet up until just a couple of years ago when I was finally financially able to purchase the safe. I will be honest, the safe was not purchased to "secure" the guns, rather to protect them from fire.

Your ebola example is apples to oranges. I did not know Ebola was constitutionally protected? However, I would insure that it was appropriately handled by qualified Bio-hazard disposal personnel. Not something that I need to do with my guns.

[O Really]

Your ebola example is apples to oranges. I did not know Ebola was constitutionally protected? However, I would insure that it was appropriately handled by qualified Bio-hazard disposal personnel. Not something that I need to do with my guns.

Nothing to do with apples or oranges, nor Constitutional protection. It's a simple analogy of what people would do if they have something dangerous. Most people would make absolutely positive, by numerous means, that their kids could not get to the Ebola. Their guns, often not so much.

[JTA]

Suppose you found yourself with a cannister of Ebola.

If I found myself with a can of Ebola, that could only mean one thing - that I was a terrorist. Because I love America (God bless it) so much, I would promptly turn myself in to uncle Sam so he could ship my ass off to Guantanamo bay where I belong.

[rstrong]

Suppose you found yourself with a cannister of Ebola.

If I found myself with a can of Ebola, that could only mean one thing - that I was a terrorist. Because I love America (God bless it) so much, I would promptly turn myself in to uncle Sam so he could ship my ass off to Guantanamo bay where I belong.

It could also mean that you're a virus researcher. A local courier vehicle carrying a canister of ebola virus had a car accident not far from my place a few years ago. (The canister was undamaged.) In 2005 a FedEx plane crashed nearby carrying vials of research viruses. They were incinerated in the resulting fire.

I still commute past a Level 4 containment virology lab, a few blocks from my old house. It was first to sequence the genes for the SARS and H1N1 viruses. And just after it opened, the area around it was evacuated. As it turned out, it was the vehicle battery place across the street that had a leak.

We Winnipegers take pride in how a new Level 4 virus containment building can be evacuated because the neighbors spilled something.