Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

[billy.pilgrim]

Purple paint and a lawsuit is hardly "terrorism". Are the UK climate activists doing similar actions terrorists?

I see, the billy.pilgrim standard for "art" is whether it's honest or not. That would eliminate all metaphor, exaggeration and irony in art, wouldn't it? Therefore, the exact same painting shown by Fascist DerSantis but with a different rationalization should not be allowed.

You and O Really have both cited religion, yet the opponents NEVER mention religious gripes, nor does the article say a word about religion. As such, I'm not bothering with the irrelevant blasphemy link and statement, nor am I engaging with the straw man "believers" question.

Rather, the ONLY objection cited by the opponents is with "exhibiting pornographic representations of minors." I just don't see how clear child porn suddenly becomes okay for the taxpayers to support just because the artist says separately that it's "intent" is PC. My own standard is no government-funded child porn, neither by Putin-haters nor by christofascists.

No.

So, it's "terrorism" when a person defaces a child porn painting, but it's not "terrorism" when a climate activist does the same thing to a wholly unrelated masterwork? Please explain so that I don't "misunderstand".

Really? You misunderstand me that much.

Says the guy that misunderstood religious objections into an article that never once mentioned religion. Please elaborate.

When did intent become rationalization?

Eye of the beholder. Which is it when, for theoretical example, Fascist DerSantis spends tax dollars displaying the exact same image as a hyperbolic depiction of LGBTQ "groomers"?

It's almost as if you are trying to misunderstand me.

Says the guy that removes being busted on his religion straw man from his supposed quote of me (restored now), then also removes and ducks my final paragraph entirely. Please elaborate.

My mistake to bring religion into this discussion and on top of that, I put religion in the headline. My bad.

That aside, it stands against our ability to communicate if various parties get to claim their own meanings to things other people do and say. When DeSantis requires state inspections for Disney's monorail "for public safety" anyone following the DeSantis vs Disney war knows by the context that he’s lying and are free to offer their own understanding of his actions. Unlike the Cahn painting (which I wouldn't want in my sight) where the context demands that the painting is about russia's crimes in Bucha, Ukraine. The meaning is honest.
You can say her meaning was poorly exhibited, but calling it child porn goes too far. DeSantis has pretty much removed studying Renaissance art from our schools because he see it as porn.
Now he's running around demanding titties everywhere be draped. He's wrong. Maybe Ashcroft was okay draping Liberty, as it was only the Liberty in his space.
DeSantis is dead wrong assigning his warped definitions everywhere.

"France’s State Council has rejected an appeal to censor a hotly debated painting by Swiss artist Miriam Cahn depicting sexual war crimes committed in Bucha, Ukraine. The work is currently on view in the artist’s retrospective titled “Ma Pensée Serielle” (“My Serial Thought”) at the Palais de Tokyo in Paris.

In today’s written verdict viewed by Artnet News, a judge concluded Cahn’s painting, titled fuck abstraction!, may remain hanging, because the “artist’s only intention is to denounce a crime” via the work. The painting also does not “violate” the safety of children or human dignity, as appellants have argued, since extra measures have been taken to contextualize the “extraordinarily raw quality” of the work, stated the Council, which acts as the supreme court of appeal for administrative law courts. The Palais de Tokyo does not permit unaccompanied minors into the side gallery featuring the contested work and advises against showing it to children.

Cahn’s semi-abstract painting in question portrays a forced fellation, based on the rape and massacre of Bucha’s residents by Russian troops, and was intended to denounce sexual crimes used as a weapon of war, according to the artist. Petitioners, however, said the central victim in the scene appears to be a child due to their small physique. They maintained that is enough to justify the work’s removal or restriction from minors on the grounds that it violates French law forbidding public displays of “pedo-pornographic” material that “incites” predators and “puts minors in danger.”'

[O Really]

Probably would have helped if Cahn has made the figures more identifiable, as if often done in political drawings, but even though the "powerful" figure is large compared to the "victim," it is far from clear that the victim is a child. You can't even tell because of the blurring if the victim is male or female, and overall bodily proportions of all figures is somewhat distorted.

[Vrede too]

My mistake to bring religion into this discussion and on top of that, I put religion in the headline. My bad.

That aside, it stands against our ability to communicate if various parties get to claim their own meanings to things other people do and say. When DeSantis requires state inspections for Disney's monorail "for public safety" anyone following the DeSantis vs Disney war knows by the context that he’s lying and are free to offer their own understanding of his actions. Unlike the Cahn painting (which I wouldn't want in my sight) where the context demands that the painting is about russia's crimes in Bucha, Ukraine. The meaning is honest.
You can say her meaning was poorly exhibited, but calling it child porn goes too far. DeSantis has pretty much removed studying Renaissance art from our schools because he see it as porn.
Now he's running around demanding titties everywhere be draped. He's wrong. Maybe Ashcroft was okay draping Liberty, as it was only the Liberty in his space.
DeSantis is dead wrong assigning his warped definitions everywhere.

Thanks for retracting the religion red herring.

What Fascist DerSantis does is exactly my point. Instead, I make the distinction when children are used, not by how someone describes the work. IMO if art NEEDS an explanatory paragraph it has failed.

Adult David and "titties" are entirely different to me.

I would be one of the people urging France’s State Council to remove from government display any image that could be used as child porn. Mysteriously, Cahn did not include a Russian flag, a Russian uniform or even put a "Z" on the abuser's chest. She just as easily could have promoted the painting in Russia as a depiction of supposed Ukrainian outrages, or as an NFT on a dark web pedophile site.

As I posted to O Really,

... I sure don't see the painting ever going on government display here, and am not entirely sure that private display would be legal.

If you or I saved or shared the image, especially if it was separated from the artist's PC "intent", I think we could be busted for child porn. Don't you?

[Vrede too]

So we've been arguing not as to whether it should be displayed, but where to display it? I've been arguing about freedom of artistic expression and you're arguing about expenditure of public funds? OK, so we get neoplacebo to write one of his most effective messages to the museum and get them to move the painting down the street to Pierre's Palace of Porn-ish and everybody's happy. Except maybe for the artist.

My first post:

... I would not visit Paris’ Palais de Tokyo as long as the painting was there, and as a taxpayer would prefer that it be displayed in a private museum rather than a French state/city of Paris one.

Also, the museum should have anticipated an attack and placed the work behind glass, searched visitors better, hired extra security, something. Was it hoping to be victimized?

The artist would probably be thrilled by the attention generated by a neoplacebo eviction.

Imaginary French Vrede too would be just as disgusted by a private display, but admit that I'd have less say over it. The article doesn't state whether France’s State Council would have still been involved if it was a non-government museum.

Probably would have helped if Cahn has made the figures more identifiable, as if often done in political drawings, but even though the "powerful" figure is large compared to the "victim," it is far from clear that the victim is a child. You can't even tell because of the blurring if the victim is male or female, and overall bodily proportions of all figures is somewhat distorted.

IMO we are clearly meant to assume that the fellator is a bound child, even if one can nitpick that slight distortion makes it "far from clear".

As I just posted to billy.pilgrim, Cahn could have also made the abuser more identifiable as a Russian occupier, but oddly chose not to.

[Vrede too]

Making sense of nonwhite white supremacists

"Some conservatives", Fox News host Mark Levin, EmptyG and Elon Musk are too thick to understand this article.

[Vrede too]

Another one :

Ex-GOP candidate arrested in shootings at lawmakers' homes

Just to be clear, Pena lost by a MARGIN of 48 percentage points in HD14, 74-26!
https://electionresults.sos.state.nm.us ... GX&map=CTY

I blame the big fat crybaby Election Denier in Chief, TRE45QN.

Those are state charges, now:

Failed GOP Candidate Faces Federal Charges In Shootings Of Democrats’ Homes
Solomon Peña is accused of organizing and carrying out attacks in New Mexico, including one that involved a machine gun, after his 2022 election defeat.

... Peña carried out the attacks after first visiting the homes of at least three Bernalillo County commissioners and urging them not to certify the state House election results, claiming the vote was “rigged” against him, prosecutors said.

Again, 74-26!

When these efforts failed, authorities said, Peña and his hired help shot up the homes of two Bernalillo County commissioners and two New Mexico state legislators between Dec. 4, 2022, and Jan. 3. Children and relatives of his intended targets were inside during at least three of the attacks, though no one was injured, authorities said.

Peña, who has pleaded not guilty to the initial 14 charges, faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 60 years in prison if convicted of the federal charges, the Justice Department said.

Of course.

... Peña has a history of criminal convictions and was released from prison in 2016. He was ordered by a judge in January to remain jailed until his state trial, which is scheduled to start next week....

Lock them up!

[Vrede too]

79 years ago today:

[Vrede too]

This is not as surprising as it should be:

Oath Keepers attorney found incompetent to stand trial: report

[Vrede too]

An Iowa meteorologist's climate change coverage led to a death threat. He's now resigning.

Bastards. Terrorists.

[Vrede too]

...

O no Canada!

Canada man charged with terror over far-right videos
A man in the Canadian capital of Ottawa has been charged with alleged ties to the Atomwaffen Division, an international neo-Nazi terrorist group.

Patrick Gordon Macdonald, 26, faces terrorism and hate propaganda charges, Canada's federal police force said.

It's the first time both counts have been brought in Canada against someone accused of promoting violent far-right ideology, according to the RCMP.

Atomwaffen Division was listed by Canada as a terrorist entity in 2021.

Mr Macdonald is alleged to have participated in, produced and distributed three videos for Atomwaffen Division, promoting its ideology.

He is due in an Ottawa court on Wednesday.

A second man was also arrested and may face charges at a later date, the RCMP said in a statement.

Atomwaffen and many other white nationalist groups subscribe to a philosophy known as accelerationism - a belief that society is inherently unstable and that they should push for a revolutionary collapse of the system.

According to the Canadian federal government, the Atomwaffen Division - founded in the US in 2013 - "calls for acts of violence against racial, religious, and ethnic groups, and informants, police, and bureaucrats, to prompt the collapse of society".

It has branches in countries including the US, the UK, Germany and Canada, and "members have also carried out violent acts at public rallies, including the August 2017 rally in Charlottesville, Virginia", the site of a deadly white nationalist protest....

The far-right is also fragmented in Canada, he told the BBC, with members often changing affiliations to evade police or because of infighting, making it a "continuous challenge to track and monitor [them]" for police.

In 2022, the RCMP arrested a 19-year-old in the province of Ontario after he filed an online application to join the Atomwaffen Division.

In the US, Brandon Russell, 27, founder of the Atomwaffen Division, faces charges of plotting to attack power installations around Baltimore.

He and his co-accused, Sarah Clendaniel, 34, were arrested before the alleged attack was carried out. Both have pleaded not guilty.

[Vrede too]

HATS, WHITE MASKS, UPSIDE DOWN FLAGS & SHIELDS - BEST NAME IN THE COMMENTS WINS!

"This is what happens after you age out of the Boy Scouts with nowhere to go."


Little Pecker Patriots
Small of Duty
Rollin' with Napoleons
The Million Virgin March
Maskholes

These are dorkasauruses. They were once close to extinction, but MAGA brought them back in droves.

I am extremely ashamed of my son. He just joined the proud boys. The Denver, Colorado group.

They wear the masks so their moms can't see what they're up to after school.

[Vrede too]

Wannabe Kristallnacht in Pensacola:

Pensacola Jewish community rallies together following anti-Semitic attack

to the Nazi bigot, good on the public.

[Vrede too]

Update:

Reuters: Jury completes day one of deliberations in Oregon refuge trial

- At the conclusion of the trial the Bundy brothers face assault, conspiracy and other charges stemming from the 2014 armed standoff at Cliven Bundy's ranch.

- A second group of defendants are due to stand trial in February.

Jury acquits leaders of Oregon standoff of federal charges

White rightwing terrorists skate in America.

No skating 7 years later.

Idaho jury hits Bundy, defendants with tens of millions in damages in St. Luke’s lawsuit

... The 12 jurors deciding damages in the civil action filed back into the courtroom early Monday evening to announce what Bundy, close associate Diego Rodriguez and their various entities would be ordered to pay the health system and other plaintiffs.

The verdict: a total of $26.5 million in compensatory damages and $26 million in punitive damages.

No RW jury nullification, not even in Idaho.

... “Taking legal action is not something we take lightly. But standing up to the threats, bullying, intimidation, disruption and self-serving actions of the defendants was necessary,” St. Luke’s CEO Chris Roth said in a news release Thursday night. “Inaction would have signaled that their menacing behavior was acceptable. Clearly, it is not, and the jury’s decision validates that fact.”

... “My hope is that you will look at this and you will deter (Bundy) in a way that he hasn’t been deterred yet,” Stidham said in his closing statements.

Good for St. Luke’s.

Bundy and Rodriguez led protests at the St. Luke’s hospitals in Meridian and downtown Boise in March 2022 over a child welfare case involving Rodriguez’s 10-month-old grandchild. The lawsuit named as defendants both men, Bundy’s People’s Rights Network, Bundy’s campaign for governor, and Rodriguez’s Freedom Man website and political action committee.

The suit said the defendants then posted multiple lies online about the hospital system, its employees and the reasons the baby was taken into custody. Over the past two weeks, St. Luke’s laid out in court via witness testimony and displays the volume of material that had been circulated by the defendants.

In the end, all were hit hard monetarily:

Ammon Bundy: $6.2 million compensatory, $6.15 million punitive

People’s Rights Network: $5.2M compensatory, $5.2M punitive

Ammon Bundy for Governor: $1.55M compensatory, $1.65M punitive

Diego Rodriguez: $7M compensatory, $6.5M punitive

Freedom Man Press/Freedom Man PAC combined: $6.55M compensatory, $6.5M punitive

... A number of health professionals testified during the damages trial that they had treated the baby for severe malnutrition and that he was in dire need of care.

There it is, RWers are the child abusers.

“In my opinion, if he had been allowed to go home with his parents and continue on the trajectory he was on, he would have died,” said Rachel Thomas, a St. Luke’s emergency room doctor.

Brave to speak out.

Stidham said the defendants, through videos and blog posts, spread lies that the hospital was working with the government to take children away from Christian families to be sexually abused and given to gay couples.

He alleged that businesses and groups belonging to Bundy and Rodriguez were a “massive ugly machine built to make money and radicalize people.” He said lying about the welfare case was a way to get people to donate to their causes.

Bundy =

After Bundy, who was running for Idaho governor at the time, and Rodriguez repeatedly failed to appear in court or respond to a judge’s orders, they were found in default, meaning they essentially forfeited the case, leaving it to head to the damages portion of trial.

Opps.

In addition to St. Luke’s, the plaintiffs in the lawsuit were Roth and two medical professionals who worked on the child’s case, Dr. Natasha Erickson and nurse practitioner Tracy Jungman. All plaintiffs were awarded millions in damages by the jury.

Dayyum, why didn't I ever get to care for the Bundy Klan or their fellow travelers?

The St. Luke’s release said that any monetary damages collected for the health system or Roth would be donated to St. Luke’s Children at Risk Evaluation Services (CARES), “a program dedicated to the belief that every child deserves to be safe, heard and supported,” and to other programs that support at-risk children.

[Vrede too]

What, me Godwin?



1933, The Sequel

2 Teachers Exposed Far-Right Activities At Their German School. They Had To Leave Town.
Max Teske and Laura Nickel were unprepared for the backlash their call to action produced.

Crap.

[Vrede too]

Another "good" ammosexual RW wannabe terrorist:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/utah-man-sus ... 34884.html

... Robertson posted online Monday that he had heard Biden was coming to Utah and he was planning to dig out a camouflage suit and begin “cleaning the dust off the M24 sniper rifle," a post that came after months of graphic online threats against several public figures, according to court documents. Robertson referred to himself as a “MAGA Trumper,” a reference to former President Donald Trump’s “Make America Great Again” slogan, and also posted threats against top law enforcement officials overseeing court cases against Trump.

Why was he not arrested months ago?

... The FBI investigation began with a tip about the Bragg threat from Trump's own social media platform Truth Social in March, after Robertson posted about “waiting in the courthouse parking garage” with a suppressed weapon and wanting to “put a nice hole in his forehead.” His account has since been suspended from the platform....

Dolt .45 is a snitch.

[Vrede too]

Michigan mom is charged with buying guns for son who threatened top Democrats, prosecutors say

... Authorities say Michelle Berka knowingly lied when she bought five guns that were eventually given to another person, according to an indictment unsealed in federal court Tuesday and first reported by The Detroit News. While the indictment dated Aug. 2 does not name who Berka gave the firearms to, her son was arrested with four of the same firearms in March....

Randall Berka II was involuntarily committed for mental health care in 2012 and declared incapacitated, which bars him from possessing guns or ammunition, the FBI said.

... Michelle Berka had purchased three long guns and one handgun for her son.

She faces up to 10 years in federal prison if she is convicted....

Should we lock her up? Probably.

[O Really]

One more gun purveyor quietly locked up and forgotten about doesn't help much. They need to come up with some way to make it more visible that these types of crimes will be enforced, perps caught and punished.

[billy.pilgrim]

Michigan mom is charged with buying guns for son who threatened top Democrats, prosecutors say

... Authorities say Michelle Berka knowingly lied when she bought five guns that were eventually given to another person, according to an indictment unsealed in federal court Tuesday and first reported by The Detroit News. While the indictment dated Aug. 2 does not name who Berka gave the firearms to, her son was arrested with four of the same firearms in March....

Randall Berka II was involuntarily committed for mental health care in 2012 and declared incapacitated, which bars him from possessing guns or ammunition, the FBI said.

... Michelle Berka had purchased three long guns and one handgun for her son.

She faces up to 10 years in federal prison if she is convicted....

Should we lock her up? Probably.

He'll yeah

[Vrede too]

Scroll up for recent Bundy saga.

Ammon Bundy Arrested on Outstanding Warrant at Son’s Football Fundraiser

Just weeks after Ammon Bundy was ordered to pay a Idaho hospital more than $50 million for defamation, the far-right provocateur is in legal trouble again—spurring deputies to arrest him at his son’s Friday night football banquet.

The Gem County Sheriff’s Office confirmed that Bundy was arrested on an outstanding arrest warrant in Ada County. The warrant, which was filed in April, came after a judge found Bundy in contempt of court for failing to show up for legal proceedings related to the civil defamation lawsuit filed by St. Luke’s Health System.

In a video posted on Bundy’s social media, he is seen handcuffed and escorted by at least three law enforcement officers out of an Emmett High School football fundraiser as attendees boo from their dinner tables. Jail records show that he is currently in Gem County Jail on a $10,000 bond.

He's locked up. Good.

Bundy’s latest arrest immediately sparked outrage among his supporters, several of whom were seen outside Gem County Jail holding signs and yelling. His official Twitter account urged supporters to “Gather at Gem County Sheriff's office in Emmett if you can!”

Erik Stidham, a lawyer for St. Luke’s, told The Daily Beast in a statement that “Mr. Bundy could easily get out of jail now by paying an extremely low bond. He is not paying the bond because he wants to use his arrest and time in jail to further a false narrative that he is some kind of martyr.”

“Mr. Bundy is not a martyr, he is a grifter who continues to grift his followers by asking them to shield him [from] paying damages and facing the contempt charges,” he said.

On Friday, the hospital also filed a new complaint against Bundy, accusing him of hiding assets to “frustrate” the health care system’s efforts to collect their defamation damages. In the complaint, the health care system and other plaintiffs asked to void any transfers of property of assets made by Bundy and his family....

[Vrede too]

Elected terrorists, with guns:

A right-wing sheriffs group that challenges federal law is gaining acceptance around the country


Constitutional Sheriffs
In this photo provided by the Arizona Center for Investigative Reporting, Klickitat County Sheriff Bob Songer talks in his office in Goldendale, Wash., July 5, 2023. Songer is an advisory board member of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association and has faced harsh criticism for his embrace of the organization's ideology about the extent of the power of the sheriff.