2024 Elections

[Vrede too]

It would be a good plan for Biden to "run" for now and drop out later in the year IF other good candidates are in on it and are preparing. What a disaster if Biden bails and only Harris and a couple of losing Lucies are left to run a chaotic campaign. Given the Dems history of competence, however, I wouldn't be shocked. Sad, disappointed, distraught, staying-in-Canada pissed, but not shocked.

Unlikely, IMO. Newsom is openly doing everything he can to be the nominee, short of challenging Joe. With Kamala and 4 RepuQs, so far, it might be a CA-FL grudge match.

[billy.pilgrim]

I'm sorta serious on this. I know Papantonio and have listened to him and rfk jr. on Ring of Fire radio for years.

His environmental and other liberal stances are stronger than anyone else and above all, he's enthusiastic.

Does the vac position kill him, or could he be allowed to promise to leave it alone in exchange for Party acceptance, much the way Lincoln did?

[O Really]

Dunno man. Let me find out who Papatinio is and I'll be back.

[billy.pilgrim]

Dunno man. Let me find out who Papatinio is and I'll be back.

Check out Ring of Fire

[billy.pilgrim]

Dunno man. Let me find out who Papatinio is and I'll be back.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of ... o_program)
Strangely they don't list rfk as a host - he was

[Vrede too]

I'm sorta serious on this. I know Papantonio

Personally?

and have listened to him and rfk jr. on Ring of Fire radio for years.

I see that RFK Jr has been featured and co-hosted years ago, but does he have a current staff or official RoF position? Has Mike Papantonio endorsed him?
https://trofire.com/ring-of-fire/

His environmental and other liberal stances are stronger than anyone else and above all, he's enthusiastic.

Agreed.

Does the vac position kill him,

Yes, IMO.

or could he be allowed to promise to leave it alone in exchange for Party acceptance, much the way Lincoln did?

He chose to make it central to his life for years, even predating COVID. I think his wingnutty disdain for science and the consequent societal mortality and morbidity are unforgivable.
viewtopic.php?p=186219#p186219

[O Really]

Anti-vaxxers should be automatically disqualified. I can forgive, even agree with, skepticism over a particular vaccine or its safety or efficacy, but broad-brush opposition to vaccines and unfounded "autism" claims aren't covered by "freedom of opinion."

[billy.pilgrim]

Anti-vaxxers should be automatically disqualified. I can forgive, even agree with, skepticism over a particular vaccine or its safety or efficacy, but broad-brush opposition to vaccines and unfounded "autism" claims aren't covered by "freedom of opinion."

I guess it's up to Gavin.

[O Really]

Anti-vaxxers should be automatically disqualified. I can forgive, even agree with, skepticism over a particular vaccine or its safety or efficacy, but broad-brush opposition to vaccines and unfounded "autism" claims aren't covered by "freedom of opinion."

I guess it's up to Gavin.

Even if he wasn't a real governor, he could play a good one on TV. But he is a real governor - of the most populous state, and economy that would rank in the top 20 or so world-wide if California was a country, and containing a full spectrum of people, industries, and conditions found anywhere. He's not perfect, but he's very good. I was originally doubtful about his national chances because the RepuQ's will beat on him so badly about being a left-wing left coast San Franciscan sorta P-Lo relative. But then I thought doh! - anybody who calls Biden a socialist or is going to spray the same stupid shit at any Dem candidate, so it doesn't really matter what's real. Newsom can get people to like him because he's able to be likeable. He projects confidence and competence and is quite a classy guy. Won't win over any hard core Trumper votes, but everybody else should be within reasonable reach.

[Vrede too]

Gavin has chosen to embrace and promote his liberal values. IMO this will play better with voters than the typical spineless Dem strategy of claiming to be moderate. Stand for something!

[O Really]

Gavin has chosen to embrace and promote his liberal values. IMO this will play better with voters than the typical spineless Dem strategy of claiming to be moderate. Stand for something!

Well, that hasn't worked very well historically, but I think in this case I agree with you. "Liberal values," when expressed as specific proposals, programs and policies poll pretty well nationally.

[billy.pilgrim]

I'm sorta serious on this. I know Papantonio

Personally?

and have listened to him and rfk jr. on Ring of Fire radio for years.

I see that RFK Jr has been featured and co-hosted years ago, but does he have a current staff or official RoF position? Has Mike Papantonio endorsed him?
https://trofire.com/ring-of-fire/

His environmental and other liberal stances are stronger than anyone else and above all, he's enthusiastic.

Agreed.

Does the vac position kill him,

Yes, IMO.

or could he be allowed to promise to leave it alone in exchange for Party acceptance, much the way Lincoln did?

He chose to make it central to his life for years, even predating COVID. I think his wingnutty disdain for science and the consequent societal mortality and morbidity are unforgivable.
viewtopic.php?p=186219#p186219

Yeah, we used to play pool at Happy Hour. I believe we discussed Jesus Camp here

I had trouble even finding his name associated with the show.

Too bad. Otherwise, he could be the guy.

[Vrede too]

Yeah, we used to play pool at Happy Hour.

Cool.

I believe we discussed Jesus Camp here

Frightening doc.

I had trouble even finding his name associated with the show.

Wiki told me that RFK Jr co-hosted. The RoF site shows a couple of episodes where he's a guest, but I didn't go very far back. Other episode titles looked like RoF is pro-COVID vax but I'm not 100% sure.

Too bad. Otherwise, he could be the guy.

More than 1M Americans died. I can't see majority Dems ever giving him a pass. If he pushes Joe to be greener, though, good.

[GoCubsGo]

Now is a time for statesmanship!

[Vrede too]

Now is a time for statesmanship!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0sU5rNXwAA ... me=900x900

Now is a time for more lies!
"leading him (Joe) in the Polls [sic] by a lot"

RCP Average 6/8 - 6/27 Trump 44.1, Biden 43.5, Trump +0.6
Too much is not the same as "a lot".

[GoCubsGo]

So who is his target audience?

[Vrede too]

So who is his target audience?

https://twitter.com/CornelWest/status/1 ... 1228622848

I'm guessing the left. He's not alone, viewtopic.php?p=186255#p186255

[O Really]

Rest of the tweet:

Let us not be deceived: NATO is an expanding instrument of U.S. global power that provoked Russia into a criminal invasion and occupation of Ukraine. This proxy war between the American Empire and the Russian Federation could lead to World War III. We must stop the war and war crimes (including cluster bombs used by all parties) and embark on diplomatic talks that should lead to a just peace. As the great W. E. B. Du Bois wrote in 1945 "I seem to see outlined a third World War based on the suppression of Asia and the strangling of Russia." The Democratic Party is a party of war and Wall Street targeting Russia and China. Let us save our democracy and world by dismantling U.S. militarism at home (as in Cop Cities) and abroad - as Martin Luther King Jr. painfully reminded us!

So who is this "we" that "must stop the war and war crimes...and embark on diplomatic talks that should lead to a just peace"? Does he really believe that if there is an opportunity for good faith diplomatic resolution that Ukraine or the US will say "naaa, we'll just keep the war going"? Has he seen any evidence that Putin would be receptive at all to such a "just peace"? Is he willing to give Ukraine to Russia in order to "stop the war and war crimes"? If Russia was legit "provoked" is it really a "criminal invasion"?

If his target audience is the left, here's one leftie he missed entirely.

[Vrede too]

Rest of the tweet:

Let us not be deceived: NATO is an expanding instrument of U.S. global power that provoked Russia into a criminal invasion and occupation of Ukraine. This proxy war between the American Empire and the Russian Federation could lead to World War III. We must stop the war and war crimes (including cluster bombs used by all parties) and embark on diplomatic talks that should lead to a just peace. As the great W. E. B. Du Bois wrote in 1945 "I seem to see outlined a third World War based on the suppression of Asia and the strangling of Russia." The Democratic Party is a party of war and Wall Street targeting Russia and China. Let us save our democracy and world by dismantling U.S. militarism at home (as in Cop Cities) and abroad - as Martin Luther King Jr. painfully reminded us!

So who is this "we" that "must stop the war and war crimes...and embark on diplomatic talks that should lead to a just peace"?

I think the US and NATO, with the assumption being jointly with Ukraine.

Does he really believe that if there is an opportunity for good faith diplomatic resolution that Ukraine or the US will say "naaa, we'll just keep the war going"?

Idk what Cornel West believes, but Chris Hedges argues:

But this proxy war in Ukraine is designed to serve U.S. interests. It enriches the weapons manufacturers, weakens the Russian military and isolates Russia from Europe. What happens to Ukraine is irrelevant.

I don't necessarily accept Hedges and West's stances, but they do raise questions for me and US wars do have a crappy history.

Has he seen any evidence that Putin would be receptive at all to such a "just peace"? Is he willing to give Ukraine to Russia in order to "stop the war and war crimes"?

It's just a tweet. Elaboration:
Democracy Now!
Newsweek
YouTube

He's probably got one or more essays out there, too, but I didn't find it/them with a brief search.

If Russia was legit "provoked" is it really a "criminal invasion"?

Sure, people get provoked into committing crimes all the time . . . except in SYG states where what should be criminal responses have now been made legal.

If his target audience is the left, here's one leftie he missed entirely.

I'm not persuaded on Ukraine yet, either, but IF NC is no longer purple I could see voting for West on the Green Party ticket, if it's even on the ballot here.

[O Really]

If his target audience is the left, here's one leftie he missed entirely.

I'm not persuaded on Ukraine yet, either, but IF NC is no longer purple I could see voting for West on the Green Party ticket, if it's even on the ballot here.

Yeah, this'll work.

AMY GOODMAN: And as president, what exactly would you do to stop that war?

CORNEL WEST: Oh, one is, I would pull back on the U.S. military support. I would sit down with the elites from the Chinese empire, given all of their forms of regimentation and repression in their own context. Think about our precious Muslim brothers and sisters in China, the Uyghurs. But I would sit down with the Chinese. I would sit down with the Ukrainians. I would sit down with the Russians, say, “We’re going to stop this war, and we’re going to come up with a plan, a process, with a variety of voices heard, to make sure that the suffering stops and we understand and we’re honest about the larger context of the war.”