Gun Legislation

[Boatrocker]

. . . Whats your point vrede. I've already proven over and over again that magazine swaps can be accomplished in seconds by the most inexperienced shooters...fractions of a second by proficient ones. Magazine size is irrelevant!

You have yet to prove one thing, beyond your dimness. And the emboldened portion of that idiotic post is absolute bullshit. Pure bullshit.

So my statement that magazine swaps can be accomplished in fractions of a second by proficient ones (shooters) is bullshit? "Pure bullshit"???

Pay extra close attention from about the 3:50 mark on. Then I'll be accepting that apology.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C-CLsMRcA0

Or maybe here if you like handguns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X94nfgvP8Ks

Or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAFxgQmxbGI

Is three enough or do you need more?? Like shooting fish in a barrel when a loudmouthed moron who is ignorant on a subject tries to make a point!!!

I don't apologize to lying teabagger white trash gun nuts. Fraction if a second? Hardly. Bullshit. Double bullshit.

Not only incurably stupid, but deaf and blind as well. Still doesn't negate the fact that those videos just proved you an ignorant loudmouthed ass...and then you doubled down on it Keep up the good work

Stupid fuck. I can link you to a video of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. So what? Were you born this dumb, or is there a special trailer trash school you went to to enhance the stupidity?

[Mad American]

Stupid fuck. I can link you to a video of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. So what? Were you born this dumb, or is there a special trailer trash school you went to to enhance the stupidity?

AND there it is folks...the triple down on dumbass! Listen up fuck stick.....don't like my videos go watch some of the rapid fire pistol competitions, go ask any number of the experts, or I can go find hundreds more videos that prove your ignorance and the fact that you are too gutless to admit that you just had your sorry ass handed to you on a silver video tape. Whatever you do, you can do it after you take a flying kiss at my ass and go fuck yourself.

[O Really]

Would you not agree, Mad, that most of those going around shooting up malls and schools are not actually gun experts? Would you not agree also that a situation in which you're killing as many people as you can and will probably get killed yourself could have an effect on your own responses? Now I'm not going to argue that some people can switch magazines quickly, nor whether your vid links are real. I don't care. But people out to create havoc pick the high capacity magazines for a reason. They don't take a bolt action or a single-shot or double-barrel shotgun for a reason. Maybe they know they're not as good or as fast as your experts.

[Ombudsman]

Let's ask some real gun experts.

Keith Ratliff
Chris Kyle

Oh wait we can't.

[O Really]

Let's ask some real gun experts.

Keith Ratliff
Chris Kyle

Oh wait we can't.

Eddie Ray Routh, hardened criminal, illegal guns, flounted existing gun laws...Oh wait. How about military vet, (formerly) "law-abiding citizen" entitled to own and carry any weapon(s) he wanted.

[Ombudsman]

The idiotic thing was that the guy was suffering from PTSD so Kyle that it would be a swell idea to take him to a firing range.

[Mad American]

Would you not agree, Mad, that most of those going around shooting up malls and schools are not actually gun experts? Would you not agree also that a situation in which you're killing as many people as you can and will probably get killed yourself could have an effect on your own responses? Now I'm not going to argue that some people can switch magazines quickly, nor whether your vid links are real. I don't care. But people out to create havoc pick the high capacity magazines for a reason. They don't take a bolt action or a single-shot or double-barrel shotgun for a reason. Maybe they know they're not as good or as fast as your experts.

Sure I'll agree that most mass shooters are not experts...neither am I, however, I can still perform a magazine swap in less than 2 seconds.

Now are you going to answer my question....if the next mass shooter uses 6 ten round mags as opposed to 2 thirties what then??? Since you brought it up, what if he uses a 5 shot bolt action from 400 yards and kills with every single round fired vs 1 dead for nearly every 6 fired or decides on a Remington 1187 loaded with 00 buckshot. Your liberal friends gonna try to ban them too???

[Ombudsman]

Now are you going to answer my question....if the next mass shooter uses 6 ten round mags as opposed to 2 thirties what then??? ?

I thought all these CWP holders were supposed to be able to take out the next shooter. If he's got a two second down time it should be no problem for the closest house wife with eight hours of instruction to take the guy out with the 9mm her hubby bought her for Valentine's Day.

[Ombudsman]

If you want to see who the idiot from Indiana I referenced earlier (prior to MA's little tantrum) was selling his gun show weapons to, take a couple hours and listen to these episodes of This American Life.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... l-part-one
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... l-part-two

This isn't just an exercise in political banter like a lot of these right wing rednecks seem to believe. People are actually dying as a result of the American gun obsession.

[Mad American]

Now are you going to answer my question....if the next mass shooter uses 6 ten round mags as opposed to 2 thirties what then??? ?

I thought all these CWP holders were supposed to be able to take out the next shooter. If he's got a two second down time it should be no problem for the closest house wife with eight hours of instruction to take the guy out with the 9mm her hubby bought her for Valentine's Day.

Good point, there is only one teensie weensie little problem. ALL of the latest headline grabbing mass shootings have taken place in GUN FREE ZONES. You know, where legal law abiding people can NOT carry their guns. You must have forgotten that inconvenient fact.

[Ombudsman]

MA are you saying you support the concept of gun free zones?

[O Really]

Now are you going to answer my question....if the next mass shooter uses 6 ten round mags as opposed to 2 thirties what then??? Since you brought it up, what if he uses a 5 shot bolt action from 400 yards and kills with every single round fired vs 1 dead for nearly every 6 fired or decides on a Remington 1187 loaded with 00 buckshot. Your liberal friends gonna try to ban them too???

I don't know, but I'd doubt it. First, people do kill people with lower capacity magazines, and undoubtedly will, but the issue could be considered "primary purpose." There have been multi-shot rifles and pistols for many years, and they all fall pretty much into the "ordinary" class, with many uses. Now sure, you could go hunting with a high capacity magazine, but most people (right or wrong) think it's primary purpose is to kill as many people as quickly as possible. Compare to other weapons - switchblades are illegal most places because most people (right or wrong) think the only reason for an auto knife is to attack people. But nobody is trying to make all "regular" knives illegal. In a lot of places, you can carry a collapsible baton, but not one with an auto-open button. Not all weapons laws make sense, but considering they're cobbled together from a bunch of high-ego people, some of whom have minimal knowledge of the subject, they're probably better than we might otherwise expect.

Where your side goes astray (in terms of getting support from non-gun people or not-so-extreme gun people) is that instead of offering some reason why a civilian "law abiding citizen" needs a high-capacity magazine, you (collectively) just hunker down and say "no need necessary - it's just my right." With all due respect, that makes you (collectively) look like a bunch of wild-eyed lunatics to a whole lot of people. You know that although you (collectively) have a Constitutional right to "bear arms" that you don't have a Constitutional right to bear any and all arms and that the right is not unlimited. No need to believe me, ask Scalia. So by taking the position, "it's my right and I just want a big gun with a high capacity magazine just because I can" you're turning off a lot of people who might otherwise be willing to learn about your real issues.

[Mad American]

Good point, there is only one teensie weensie little problem. ALL of the latest headline grabbing mass shootings have taken place in GUN FREE ZONES. You know, where legal law abiding people can NOT carry their guns. You must have forgotten that inconvenient fact.

Several teensie weensie little problems:

Yes there are

Not William H. Spengler killed TWO...hardly a mass shooting
Not Jared Lee Loughner at an event for a sitting member of congress and vrede thinks guns were allowed
Not Nathan Van Wilkins in a bar...guns NOT allowed were alcohol is served
Not Eduardo Sencion killed 4.... again not hardly a MASS shooting
Not Scott Evans Dekraai had to dig back two years but legit
Not Nidal Malik Hasan other than MP's or at the range weapons are under lock and key on military bases...see base armory

You must have forgotten those inconvenient facts.

Nope....I just used the ones that were ACCURATE unlike you who will split hairs and twist words to fit your argument

Seriously, Mad American, what kind of cretins do you typically converse with that you think you can post such BS and get away with it?

I converse with you. Funny part is you think you can google up anything and post it in an effort to disprove my points. Worse, the cretins here buy your BS hook line and sinker

[Mad American]

Now are you going to answer my question....if the next mass shooter uses 6 ten round mags as opposed to 2 thirties what then??? Since you brought it up, what if he uses a 5 shot bolt action from 400 yards and kills with every single round fired vs 1 dead for nearly every 6 fired or decides on a Remington 1187 loaded with 00 buckshot. Your liberal friends gonna try to ban them too???

I don't know, but I'd doubt it. First, people do kill people with lower capacity magazines, and undoubtedly will, but the issue could be considered "primary purpose." There have been multi-shot rifles and pistols for many years, and they all fall pretty much into the "ordinary" class, with many uses. Now sure, you could go hunting with a high capacity magazine, but most people (right or wrong) think it's primary purpose is to kill as many people as quickly as possible. Compare to other weapons - switchblades are illegal most places because most people (right or wrong) think the only reason for an auto knife is to attack people. But nobody is trying to make all "regular" knives illegal. In a lot of places, you can carry a collapsible baton, but not one with an auto-open button. Not all weapons laws make sense, but considering they're cobbled together from a bunch of high-ego people, some of whom have minimal knowledge of the subject, they're probably better than we might otherwise expect.

Where your side goes astray (in terms of getting support from non-gun people or not-so-extreme gun people) is that instead of offering some reason why a civilian "law abiding citizen" needs a high-capacity magazine, you (collectively) just hunker down and say "no need necessary - it's just my right." With all due respect, that makes you (collectively) look like a bunch of wild-eyed lunatics to a whole lot of people. You know that although you (collectively) have a Constitutional right to "bear arms" that you don't have a Constitutional right to bear any and all arms and that the right is not unlimited. No need to believe me, ask Scalia. So by taking the position, "it's my right and I just want a big gun with a high capacity magazine just because I can" you're turning off a lot of people who might otherwise be willing to learn about your real issues.

When it comes to magazine capacity I do not care. I've already proven that even a novice can be as effective with 3 ten round mags or 1 thirty. It is that FACT that concerns me in regard to what is banned and what isn't. I conceded long ago that full auto weapons and stuff like rocket launchers and bazookas should not be readily available and they are not. However, once we get in to the realm of basic firearms, single non exploding projectile for single trigger pull yada yada, and bans are talked about you step onto a very slippery slope. It is where that slope might end if it is ever allowed to begin that concerns MOST gun owners.

[Ombudsman]

Not Eduardo Sencion killed 4.... again not hardly a MASS shooting

The FBI disagrees with you.

Generally, mass murder was described as a number of murders (four or more) occurring during the same incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders. These events typically involved a single location, where the killer murdered a number of victims in an ongoing incident (e.g. the 1984 San Ysidro McDonalds incident in San Diego, California; the 1991 Luby’s Restaurant massacre in Killeen, Texas; and the 2007 Virginia Tech murders in Blacksburg, Virginia)

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publi ... l-murder-1

There have been 900 people killed in 186 mass shootings in the last seven years. Many more shot who survived. Are you claiming these all took place in gun free zones?

[Mad American]

Not Eduardo Sencion killed 4.... again not hardly a MASS shooting

The FBI disagrees with you.

Generally, mass murder was described as a number of murders (four or more) occurring during the same incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders. These events typically involved a single location, where the killer murdered a number of victims in an ongoing incident (e.g. the 1984 San Ysidro McDonalds incident in San Diego, California; the 1991 Luby’s Restaurant massacre in Killeen, Texas; and the 2007 Virginia Tech murders in Blacksburg, Virginia)

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publi ... l-murder-1

There have been 900 people killed in 186 mass shootings in the last seven years. Many more shot who survived. Are you claiming these all took place in gun free zones?

Nope. I said all of the "latest headline grabbing mass shootings". Comprehension much? Since you brought it up, why don't you ask Susanna Hupp where her carry weapon was and why during the shooting at Luby's....and by the way Virgina Tech....it was a GUN FREE ZONE! God you idiots are too easy!!

[Ombudsman]

Not Eduardo Sencion killed 4.... again not hardly a MASS shooting

The FBI disagrees with you.

Generally, mass murder was described as a number of murders (four or more) occurring during the same incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders. These events typically involved a single location, where the killer murdered a number of victims in an ongoing incident (e.g. the 1984 San Ysidro McDonalds incident in San Diego, California; the 1991 Luby’s Restaurant massacre in Killeen, Texas; and the 2007 Virginia Tech murders in Blacksburg, Virginia)

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publi ... l-murder-1

There have been 900 people killed in 186 mass shootings in the last seven years. Many more shot who survived. Are you claiming these all took place in gun free zones?

Nope. I said all of the "latest headline grabbing mass shootings". Comprehension much? Since you brought it up, why don't you ask Susanna Hupp where her carry weapon was and why during the shooting at Luby's....and by the way Virgina Tech....it was a GUN FREE ZONE! God you idiots are too easy!!

You appear incapable of reading your own posts. You specifically said four deaths is not a mass shooting. The FBI says otherwise.

[Ombudsman]

Not Jared Lee Loughner at an event for a sitting member of congress and vrede thinks guns were allowed

Guess you missed the story of the bystander with a pistol who almost shot the wrong person who happened to be subduing Loughner.

[Mad American]

Not Eduardo Sencion killed 4.... again not hardly a MASS shooting

The FBI disagrees with you.

Generally, mass murder was described as a number of murders (four or more) occurring during the same incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders. These events typically involved a single location, where the killer murdered a number of victims in an ongoing incident (e.g. the 1984 San Ysidro McDonalds incident in San Diego, California; the 1991 Luby’s Restaurant massacre in Killeen, Texas; and the 2007 Virginia Tech murders in Blacksburg, Virginia)

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publi ... l-murder-1

There have been 900 people killed in 186 mass shootings in the last seven years. Many more shot who survived. Are you claiming these all took place in gun free zones?

Nope. I said all of the "latest headline grabbing mass shootings". Comprehension much? Since you brought it up, why don't you ask Susanna Hupp where her carry weapon was and why during the shooting at Luby's....and by the way Virgina Tech....it was a GUN FREE ZONE! God you idiots are too easy!!

You appear incapable of reading your own posts. You specifically said four deaths is not a mass shooting. The FBI says otherwise.

0:-?>
You asked a question and I answered it. However, I find it hilarious that in your effort to prove a point, once again, all you have proven is your ignorance by giving 2 out of 3 examples where carrying weapons was prohibited And you say I'm incapable of reading

[Ombudsman]

Not Eduardo Sencion killed 4.... again not hardly a MASS shooting

The FBI disagrees with you.

Generally, mass murder was described as a number of murders (four or more) occurring during the same incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders. These events typically involved a single location, where the killer murdered a number of victims in an ongoing incident (e.g. the 1984 San Ysidro McDonalds incident in San Diego, California; the 1991 Luby’s Restaurant massacre in Killeen, Texas; and the 2007 Virginia Tech murders in Blacksburg, Virginia)

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publi ... l-murder-1

There have been 900 people killed in 186 mass shootings in the last seven years. Many more shot who survived. Are you claiming these all took place in gun free zones?

Nope. I said all of the "latest headline grabbing mass shootings". Comprehension much? Since you brought it up, why don't you ask Susanna Hupp where her carry weapon was and why during the shooting at Luby's....and by the way Virgina Tech....it was a GUN FREE ZONE! God you idiots are too easy!!

You appear incapable of reading your own posts. You specifically said four deaths is not a mass shooting. The FBI says otherwise.

0:-?>
You asked a question and I answered it. However, I find it hilarious that in your effort to prove a point, once again, all you have proven is your ignorance by giving 2 out of 3 examples where carrying weapons was prohibited And you say I'm incapable of reading

You apparently are incapable of reading well. Now you're confusing my posts with Vrede's. See that part of your post in red? It says, "killed 4.... again not hardly a MASS shooting". As I showed you, the FBI disagrees with you. Can you really not comprehend something that simple?