Billy Graham suggesting Mormons are a cult.

[perspctv]

Try to define hope and then explain how believe in a magical mythical super dude is necessary in that definition.

Re: your second ... if he is wrong, what? What if you're wrong? All the world's religions can't simultaneously all be correct?

Nonetheless, silly statements that atheists are without hope is just lazy thinking.

A "magical mythical super dude " wouldn't be necessary in any pattern of thought or belief now would he, after all, "mythical" is just what it implies. Take away the "mythical" aspect of your question, then your question becomes pertinent.

Glad you see that belief in some magical God isn't necessary to have hope despite earlier implying as much.

If an Atheist is wrong, then the outcome would be winner takes all, and the Atheist wouldn't be the winner.

Believe in your God mandates a 'winner take all'? What religion is that? If an atheist is wrong he joins the vast majority on the planet.

If a believer in God is wrong, then he is worm food and nothing really matters any way, now does it. Worm food is preferred over the Atheist outcome, according to religious writings.

So you are saying you one should believe due to fear? Tiresome.

What you voice/argue is a rendition on Pascal's wager. An Imam could argue just the same gambit. Should one claim to believe all religions equally to 'win' your wager. That is your best bet here, balskfoot. Using your offered 'logic', you should clearly be praying to Mecca six times a day as well. I bet you have been ignoring your Super Dude assigned duties.

If one falls for such temptation with rewards [Heaven! - with or without virgins] of salvation in order to "believe" in such a Super Dude. the results will be at best a faint, tattered and ultimately unwholesome belief. Weakly suggesting another or admitting oneself does or should feign belief, which is dishonest, is rather silly. Any such Super Dude, being just and omniscient, would be able to see through this feigned belief, thus nullifying the benefits of the wager. right? For your tactic to work the Super Dude must be willing to reward dishonesty and subterfuge. This is the Super Dude you worship?

Seeking to control others with fear and willing to reward dishonesty.

You aren't making much of a case.

[bannination]

Nope, just kicking the ball back in your court. You were the one that tied sanity to what one believes.

You said you could explain Obama by his beliefs, when questioned you said you couldn't.

Can't keep up with yourself?

[Reality]

I said "maybe"! Your are dodging an explanation of your original statement.

Although I am new here I have noticed that you make statements then fade away when confronted. If you are not going to defend what you say, why say it?

[homerfobe]

Magic underwear. Sounds like a queers dream. One day we'll probably have a queer prez and that magic underwear will come
in handy. Instead of bowing to another world leader, he'll just bend over and his underwear will magically drop.
Technology constantly amazes me.

[bannination]

I said "maybe"! Your are dodging an explanation of your original statement.

Although I am new here I have noticed that you make statements then fade away when confronted. If you are not going to defend what you say, why say it?

No you didn't. (Say maybe) you said, and I quote.

Explains a lot about Obama.

So then I asked you such as? -- and then you've dodged ever since.

You also never asked for clarification of my original statement.

[blackfoot]

Glad you see that belief in some magical God isn't necessary to have hope despite earlier implying as much.

You left out "mythical" this time, progress being made maybe? I think your problem is with the word "hope". While most people refer to "hope" when discussing one's eternal destiny, you tend to place "hope" on the same scale as what tasty meal you may have for supper. Another attribute of Atheist, nothing in the way of spiritual sustenance.

If an atheist is wrong he joins the vast majority on the planet.

And what of the minority? Where ever there is a majority, there's a minority.

So you are saying you one should believe due to fear? Tiresome.

What is obvious is that you fight really hard against something you don't even believe exist, or at least thats your claim. Me, I would never argue and attack the Easter Bunny, because it doesn't exist, but you seem to thrive on attacking and arguing against something you claim to not even believe in. You have what is called the Don Quixote Syndrome.

Truth is, you nor any other Atheist for that matter will never disprove God, no matter how hard you try. At least with a believer, there is proof right before your eyes of an intelligent designer, that is if you understand the intricacies of creation, scientifically speaking.

[Reality]

Sorry, I said "might conclude" ("Using your measuring stick of sanity by what one believes one might conclude that Obama is a card short of a full deck.")

Now, and once again, you tied "beliefs" to sanity. If one drifts in and out of what they believe (Islam and Christianity) doesn't doing so question what side of the sanity fence one resides.

[O Really]

For all I know, Romney and his fellow Mormons may not put any more real-life importance to their temple garments than the ratty old "lucky" t-shirt one might wear to a ball game. Most (by no means all) Americans who follow a particular religion do so within the bounds of the physical world in which most of us live. So one might wear a Yarmulke as part of ones religious belief as well as a public statement, but probably nobody thinks that it would provide any protection if hit on the head. Likewise, one might wear a St. Christopher medal to "protect" them in travel, but probably very few would trust it enough to drive blindfolded.

On the other hand, if a person - of any religion or belief - really did think that s/he and those like them really were the chosen, and all others are lesser and probably going to hell anyway, one might wonder about their objectivity in governing on behalf of everyone. To take an extreme, but still decent analogy, would anyone want the pastor of Westboro being in public office?

[Reality]

O'Really, does your response apply to Obama's quote from Audacity of Hope?

The actual quote from the book is from page 261 and is as follows: "Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

[k9nanny]

Both the shamrock and the Blarney stone are symbols of Ireland, but the Blarney stone has its
own special meaning, and you know what blarney is. It's all in the past now anyway.

MrB fits one definition: amusing and harmless nonsense.
Not sure he has the other one, the gift persuading with charm and flattery.

[O Really]

O'Really, does your response apply to Obama's quote from Audacity of Hope?

The actual quote from the book is from page 261 and is as follows: "Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

I have no idea. I'm talking about religious beliefs with regard to how that might or might not affect their work performance. Your quote is about the effects of discrimination on immigrants and their descendants. Maybe you can find a relationship.

[AntiAlias]

Truth is, you nor any other Atheist for that matter will never disprove God, no matter how hard you try. At least with a believer, there is proof right before your eyes of an intelligent designer, that is if you understand the intricacies of creation, scientifically speaking.

By all means, present this proof of an intelligent designer to us.

[Brother]

Actually, God is not to be proved or disproved. Hence the meaning of faith. If we had proof that there was a God then there would be no need for faith - we would have proof that He exists. Kinda negates the point.

[Crock Hunter]

Actually, God is not to be proved or disproved. Hence the meaning of faith. If we had proof that there was a God then there would be no need for faith - we would have proof that He exists. Kinda negates the point.

Well said Abs..

Similarly..just for fun.... from Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. (a must read series)

The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with the nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen it to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.

The argument goes something like this:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish (Creation-CH) is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed on the next zebra crossing.

Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book Well That About Wraps It Up For God.

Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.

[Reality]

O'Really you said "On the other hand, if a person - of any religion or belief - really did think that s/he and those like them really were the chosen, and all others are lesser and probably going to hell anyway, one might wonder about their objectivity in governing on behalf of everyone.

So, you say Obama's quote about standing with the Muslim's isn't faith based? Pretty strong statement to say one will stand against his country based on issues of immigration.

[Crock Hunter]

Truth is, you nor any other Atheist for that matter will never disprove God, no matter how hard you try. .

Nor could one disprove the existence of Quetzalcoatl... but why would they feel the need... you clearly do not know what atheist means?

At least with a believer, there is proof right before your eyes of an intelligent designer,

Existence is not proof of intelligent design.. Never has been.. never will be...

if you understand the intricacies of creation, scientifically speaking.

There are no scientifically speaking intricacies of creation.

[Crock Hunter]

Technology constantly amazes me.

I get the impression that anything more complex than a stick amazes you.. .

[neoplacebo]

O'Really you said "On the other hand, if a person - of any religion or belief - really did think that s/he and those like them really were the chosen, and all others are lesser and probably going to hell anyway, one might wonder about their objectivity in governing on behalf of everyone.

So, you say Obama's quote about standing with the Muslim's isn't faith based? Pretty strong statement to say one will stand against his country based on issues of immigration.

Your comprehension skills are not working......the quote from the book is talking about discrimination against Muslims because of the 9/11 attacks; the comparision is even made with the internment of Japanese American citizens during WWII. Faith has nothing to do with it. What is being discussed and quoted is discrimination within immigrant communities, not religion.

[blackfoot]

Nor could one disprove the existence of Quetzalcoatl... but why would they feel the need... you clearly do not know what atheist means?

My question to perspctv, why attack the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, if you don't believe in them.

Existence is not proof of intelligent design.. Never has been.. never will be...

Then name something that exist by design that had no designer.

There are no scientifically speaking intricacies of creation

Oh darn, and to think, Crock Hunter has figured out the "Human Genome" and has kept the answers all to himself. Share with the world oh great one.

[Tertius]

There is only one time to question another's religious faith. When that religion seeks to prevent you from the free practice of your religious faith. That is exactly what Islam says. It is the only religion I know of that in its proper practice followers must prevent the practice of any other religious faith.