Ukraine

[Vrede too]

Here’s another interesting aspect. The UK is reportedly willing to put “boots on the ground” to support Ukraine. Should the U.S. be willing to do the same?

Kinda moot with PINO in the WH. May be better for the UK to do it, anyhow - less provocative, less frightening to the Russian people, less likely to spark WW3.

[GoCubsGo]

Well, the story is that Zelensky was demanding security assurances in exchange for the minerals deal.

LOL

Why else would he sign the deal?

Why would Trump agree to continue to send money and weapons to Ukraine?

We need to get something out of this.

Your neighbors house is on fire.

You give them a hose and worry about it later. You don't negotiate for the hose while the fire is burning.

You don't negotiate for the hose at all especially as you've got extras.

[GoCubsGo]

[Jasmine]

Well, the story is that Zelensky was demanding security assurances in exchange for the minerals deal.

LOL

Why else would he sign the deal?

Why would Trump agree to continue to send money and weapons to Ukraine?

We need to get something out of this.

Your neighbors house is on fire.

You give them a hose and worry about it later. You don't negotiate for the hose while the fire is burning.

You don't negotiate for the hose at all especially as you've got extras.

Again, the Ukraine is thousands of miles away. Not exactly our neighbor.

We need to get something out of this.

[Vrede too]

Well, the story is that Zelensky was demanding security assurances in exchange for the minerals deal.

LOL

Why else would he sign the deal?

Why would Trump agree to continue to send money and weapons to Ukraine?

We need to get something out of this.

In theory, what we get out of it is not having to fight Putin in:
Estonia
Finland
Latvia
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Turkey, and other NATO countries.

I'd still like to see the evidence that Ukraine hasn't shown enough gratitude, but they are the ones who have sacrificed tens of thousands of lives, their land, and the wealth of generations in this 'trip wire' defense of Europe. We should be grateful to them. All we've lost is money, a fraction of what PINO is wanting to give to the 1%. Plus, most of that money went to purchasing US weapons - jobs and a boost to our economy.

[GoCubsGo]

As an aside, it takes a special kind of asshole to squeeze a leader and a democratic country that's fighting for it's life.

Who the fuck does that?

[Jasmine]

As an aside, it takes a special kind of asshole to squeeze a leader and a democratic country that's fighting for it's life.

Who the fuck does that?

I would. Especially when we give, give, give and get nothing in return. We are not an endless source of charity.

A few more thoughts:

I see some conservatives think Zelensky should apologize for what happened today. I see no reason for that. He was just looking out for his country’s interests, just as Trump is looking out of the U.S. interests.

Criticizing Zelensky for not wearing a suit is just silly, especially when you consider John Fetterman constantly dressing like a bum.

Does Trump really want the war to end? Probably. Does he really want peace? I doubt he really cares. I think he wants the war to end because it’ll be something he can brag about. That’s it.

I think Zelensky will have no choice but to crawl back to Trump and give in to whatever deal he demands. Without the U.S., Ukraine has zero chance.

[GoCubsGo]

I think Zelensky will have no choice but to crawl back to Trump and give in to whatever deal he demands. Without the U.S., Ukraine has zero chance.

Trump's about to go through some shit from everyone but the dictators and his sickophants. He's making himself an international pariah.

Hope your house doesn't catch on fire anytime soon.

I'll sit there with my beers and at you until you make me an offer I deem worth my time and effort.

Then I'll ask for more.

[Jasmine]

I think Zelensky will have no choice but to crawl back to Trump and give in to whatever deal he demands. Without the U.S., Ukraine has zero chance.

Trump's about to go through some shit from everyone but the dictators and his sickophants. He's making himself an international pariah.

Hope your house doesn't catch on fire anytime soon.

I'll sit there with my beers and at you until you make me an offer I deem worth my time and effort.

Then I'll ask for more.

That’s how it should be.

[GoCubsGo]

That’s how it should be.

Yeah, I don't want to live in your world.

Are you a Christian?

Would you help your neighbors in Western North Carolina with the floods, Los Angeles with the fires or Florida with the hurricanes or is everyone on their own?

[Vrede too]

That’s how it should be.

Yeah, I don't want to live in your world.

Are you a Christian?

I wouldn't know about religion or even political party, but it's clear that Jasmine is an amoral, ultra-dogmatic, extremely transactional libertarian.

[GoCubsGo]

That’s how it should be.

Yeah, I don't want to live in your world.

Are you a Christian?

I wouldn't know about religion or even political party, but it's clear that Jasmine is an amoral, ultra-dogmatic, extremely transactional libertarian.

And rather visceral.

[GoCubsGo]

Trump's about to go through some shit from everyone but the dictators and his sickophants. He's making himself an international pariah.

My point proven.

[GoCubsGo]

LOL

[Jasmine]

That’s how it should be.

Yeah, I don't want to live in your world.

Are you a Christian?

Would you help your neighbors in Western North Carolina with the floods, Los Angeles with the fires or Florida with the hurricanes or is everyone on their own?

I would definitely help my neighbors.

Ukraine is not my neighbor.

[O Really]

Allies don't have to be next door to be important.

[GoCubsGo]

Allies don't have to be next door to be important.

Vrede and I have already had this conversation her, today and a few weeks ago.

She's not wrapping her head around it.

Peter Principle, fora version.

[Vrede too]

As discussed here in different ways, it's not charity to defend Ukraine. It's self interest.

LOL

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail ... l73ne@jpeg

Maybe I'll put off my European vacation until the next admin* . Or, will it be called 'West Russia' by then?

6 days ago, before the Oval Office travesty:

'Put A Sock In It': Canadian Lawmaker Tears Apart Trump Over His Zelenskyy Attacks
Charlie Angus, a member of Canada's Parliament, predicted that the world "will be forced" to treat America "the way we treat Putin" due to Trump.

... Angus — a member of the left-leaning New Democratic Party who serves in the Canadian Parliament — reacted to Trump calling Zelenskyy a “dictator,” an attack that stunned European allies and led to pushback from some Republicans as the U.S. looks to negotiate talks to end Russia’s war in Ukraine.

“To attack a leader like Zelenskyy, who has more moral fiber in his little toe than Donald Trump has in his entire body and his entire cabinet, is outrageous,” said Angus in an interview with Ben Meiselas of the MeidasTouch Network.

“Volodymyr Zelenskyy has shown the world what democracy means, Donald Trump is a convicted felon and a sexual pervert. Those two men shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence.”

Angus, who slammed Trump’s love for “gangster” Russian President Vladimir Putin, later referred to what an unnamed Eastern European colleague told him in response to Trump calling for a regime change in Ukraine.

“She said to me, ‘The Ukrainian people survived the Holodomor. The Ukrainian people survived Stalin. The Ukrainian people survived Chernobyl. They’ve survived Putin. Do you think that Donald Trump is going to break the Ukranian people?’” recalled Angus.

“So Donald, just put a sock in it for now.”

He continued by warning that Trump is going to do “enormous damage to democracy,” impacting both U.S. allies and the rest of the world as he tries to help his “criminal buddy” Putin.

“And the world will be forced, now, to treat America the way we treat Putin, and we are going to all have to pick up our game dramatically to defend democracy whether it’s in Ukraine or whether it’s in our own countries,” said Angus, who has previously knocked Trump over his tariff threats.

GoCanadaGo!

[Supsalemgr]

I watched the encounter and describe it as unfortunate. I agree with Trump and Vance that Zellensky is ungrateful for what the US had done for Unkraine. That being said, the open forum was not the best place to call him out. It seems Zellensky should understand if the minerals deal is signed it implies there will be protection for Ukraine.

The bottom line. Without US support Ukraine is toast.

"unfortunate" It was a deliberate abandonment of an ally.

"ungrateful" Evidence?

"implies" The US will get the minerals if Russia occupies, too. Unless there are ironclad security guarantees DonOLD's word is as good as it ever is - garbage.

Ukraine has been counted out before, in 2022 when TRE45QN was calling his idol PUTIN a "genius". We'll see. Ukraine's own weapons industry has become huge, it will now be free to launch many more painful attacks deep within Russia, and Europe can step up its aid and may even put troops into Ukraine. I'm not hopeful, but I'm not as defeatist as useful idiots like you are.

"ungrateful" Evidence?"

To quote Vrede on numerous occasions. Pay attention.

I guess you missed how much the US has all ready poured into the Unkraine situation.

[Vrede too]

I watched the encounter and describe it as unfortunate. I agree with Trump and Vance that Zellensky is ungrateful for what the US had done for Unkraine. That being said, the open forum was not the best place to call him out. It seems Zellensky should understand if the minerals deal is signed it implies there will be protection for Ukraine.

The bottom line. Without US support Ukraine is toast.

"unfortunate" It was a deliberate abandonment of an ally.

"ungrateful" Evidence?

"implies" The US will get the minerals if Russia occupies, too. Unless there are ironclad security guarantees DonOLD's word is as good as it ever is - garbage.

Ukraine has been counted out before, in 2022 when TRE45QN was calling his idol PUTIN a "genius". We'll see. Ukraine's own weapons industry has become huge, it will now be free to launch many more painful attacks deep within Russia, and Europe can step up its aid and may even put troops into Ukraine. I'm not hopeful, but I'm not as defeatist as useful idiots like you are.

"ungrateful" Evidence?"

To quote Vrede on numerous occasions. Pay attention.

I guess you missed how much the US has all ready poured into the Unkraine situation.

Non sequitur. Pay attention.

The amount of US aid to "Unkraine" is well known, though DonOLD routinely exaggerates it while dishonestly minimizing how much Europe has kicked in. What you are cowering from, as usual, is providing any evidence that Zelenskyy and the Ukraininan people are "ungrateful" for it.

While we're here, did you see this:
viewtopic.php?p=209168#p209168 ?

Which side are you on - Reagan/Ike or POTUS Putin/PINO?