Billy Graham suggesting Mormons are a cult.

[bannination]

There is nothing that tells me I need to kill you so you will go to hell for not having the same faith.

O rly?

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5)

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6)

"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)

"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15)


Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

Comment -

These severe laws commanded the members of the Hebrew religion to murder even their own children if they did not worship Yahweh (God).

These Bible words can justify, to a fanatical fundamentalist believer, the killing of friends or family simply because they may fail to change their beliefs.

Why anyone today would accept these words, much less allow them to exist in a sacred book goes against the nature of any tolerant and loving people.

[bannination]

Then I gather the "foot" in blackfoot refers to the one you keep in your mouth.. .

Care to try again to name something that was created from "nothing"?

I don't know much about this religion thing because it seems most religions revolve around what each religion's membership wants
to believe, or want others to believe in regards to that particular religion, so I just step back and let 'em have at it.

Now, as far as a Creator, that's a different story. I don't believe that this world was created out of a naturally occurring process because I don't believe that things around us just couldn't occur naturally.

For instance:
The air we breathe contains just the right amount of oxygen and nitrogen mixture. The carbon dioxide we emit is absorbed by trees that in turn produce more oxygen/nitrogen for us to breathe.

The various layers between the earth's surface and outer space is just right to keep us from freezing or frying, or being overly exposed to damaging radiations from space.

The earth is approximately 75% water, the largest amount is undrinkable is it's current state; yet every drop of water that has ever been on earth since the beginning of time, is still here. Water falls to the earth where it is filtered by the earth and we reuse it over and over.

The human brain is one of the most complex computers that could ever be designed. Man is not capable of utilizing his entire brain.

New life is formed by the fertilization, by a sperm carrying life form, of an egg in the body of an egg-bearing life form. One form cannot fertilize itself.

Whether or not there is an evil force that exists called the Devil/Satan, etc., I can't say, but if he/it doesn't exist in a real sense, I believe his/it's spirit, called sin, is alive and well just because of what I see around me. I don't believe that a male or female should turn their sexual desires towards another male or female. If creation naturally occurred, so as to permit procreation, where in hell did homosexuality come from? (oops! I believe I just answered that!) Humans, which are the most intelligent life forms on this planet, are the only life forms that choose to wantonly kill their unborn or kill them after they're born. Many lower life forms may choose to kill their offspring as a means of survival for themselves, or if they sense that their offspring cannot survive due to circumstances they cannot control.

There's plenty more reasons I believe in Creation and the presence of Sin, but I don't think I ought to list them here. All of you are intelligent people and regardless what you choose to think or convey to others, you know where I'm coming from, and if you'll stop and think, you'll probably agree with me.

Some of those are laughably incorrect.

[homerfobe]

Some of those are laughably incorrect.

Which ones? This one maybe: "All of you are intelligent people..."?

[blackfoot]

Christians believe in Gad as a matter of faith. Faith is without proof.

Belief if Christ takes faith, belief in an intelligent designer takes the five senses. The complexity of creation has nothing to do with faith, but facts. Just because there are imbeciles that can look at something as complex as the human body and claim it was created by chance is nothing new, there have been idiots around since the beginning.

[bannination]

Christians believe in Gad as a matter of faith. Faith is without proof.

Belief if Christ takes faith, belief in an intelligent designer takes the five senses. The complexity of creation has nothing to do with faith, but facts. Just because there are imbeciles that can look at something as complex as the human body and claim it was created by chance is nothing new, there have been idiots around since the beginning.

Belief in a intelligent designer requires and idiot to believe it.

Who created a complex intelligent designer if complexity can't come naturally?

[bannination]

New life is formed by the fertilization, by a sperm carrying life form, of an egg in the body of an egg-bearing life form. One form cannot fertilize itself.

Quickest one to disprove is this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction

You'll have to take my word for the others I don't have time to find reputable sources to disprove them.

[homerfobe]

Christians believe in God as a matter of faith. Faith is without proof.

Belief if Christ takes faith, belief in an intelligent designer takes the five senses. The complexity of creation has nothing to do with faith, but facts. Just because there are imbeciles that can look at something as complex as the human body and claim it was created by chance is nothing new, there have been idiots around since the beginning.

Agreed. I didn't touch on the entire body in my ramble above, but every blood and flesh body on this earth is extremely complex in it's design. I just can't accept that such complex designs evolved out of a slimeball that crawled out of mudholes eons ago.

To believe such is "laughably incorrect".

Christians believe in Gad as a matter of faith. Faith is without proof.

Belief if Christ takes faith, belief in an intelligent designer takes the five senses. The complexity of creation has nothing to do with faith, but facts. Just because there are imbeciles that can look at something as complex as the human body and claim it was created by chance is nothing new, there have been idiots around since the beginning.

Belief in a intelligent design requires and idiot to believe it. Who created a complex intelligent designer if complexity can't come naturally?

That's why I don't dabble in religions. I don't know if I want to hear any of their reasonings, so I'll stick to my own personal idiocies and laugh at the idiocies of those who sneer at intelligent design.

[neoplacebo]

So neoplacebo, is Obama going to stand with his Muslim brothers because of his Islamic religious convictions or stand with them becuase he thinks they will be persecuted like the Japanese? I'm betting on religious convictions. Of course in Obama's case no one is sure what his religious convictions are. Depends on the audience.

Don't know.....what I got out of your original quote from the book is that Obama not only has personal experience with regard to discrimination (racial), he is only expressing empathy toward any Muslims who may experience discrimination as a result of the 9/11 attacks. I don't see anything in the quote that leads me to jump to conclusions about his religious beliefs. As for what they are, he has stated more than once that he's a Christian. I take that at face value.

[homerfobe]

New life is formed by the fertilization, by a sperm carrying life form, of an egg in the body of an egg-bearing life form. One form cannot fertilize itself.

Quickest one to disprove is this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction
You'll have to take my word for the others I don't have time to find reputable sources to disprove them.

Forgot that one, but asexual reproduction still requires an egg to be fertilized. Where do queers fit into this equation?

[bannination]

New life is formed by the fertilization, by a sperm carrying life form, of an egg in the body of an egg-bearing life form. One form cannot fertilize itself.

Quickest one to disprove is this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction
You'll have to take my word for the others I don't have time to find reputable sources to disprove them.

Forgot that one, but asexual reproduction still requires an egg to be fertilized. Where do queers fit into this equation?

Same place hermaphrodites do I suppose except instead of being born with both, just born with the wrong one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite

[homerfobe]

New life is formed by the fertilization, by a sperm carrying life form, of an egg in the body of an egg-bearing life form. One form cannot fertilize itself.

Quickest one to disprove is this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction
You'll have to take my word for the others I don't have time to find reputable sources to disprove them.

Forgot that one, but asexual reproduction still requires an egg to be fertilized. Where do queers fit into this equation?

Same place hermaphrodites do I suppose except instead of being born with both, just born with the wrong one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite

OK, so where do queers fit into this equation?

[Reality]

O'Really, pardon me if this quote is off point but thought it was appropriate for the thread.

“There are a whole lot of religious people in America, including the majority of Democrats. When we abandon the field of religious discourse—when we ignore the debate about what it means to be a good Christian or Muslim or Jew; when we discuss religion only in the negative sense of where or how it should not be practiced, rather than in the positive sense of what it tells us about our obligations toward one another; when we shy away from religious venues and religious broadcasts because we assume that we will be unwelcome—others will fill the vacuum. And those who do are likely to be those with the most insular views of faith, or who cynically use religion to justify partisan ends.”
― Barack Obama, The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream

[bannination]

New life is formed by the fertilization, by a sperm carrying life form, of an egg in the body of an egg-bearing life form. One form cannot fertilize itself.

Quickest one to disprove is this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction
You'll have to take my word for the others I don't have time to find reputable sources to disprove them.

Forgot that one, but asexual reproduction still requires an egg to be fertilized. Where do queers fit into this equation?

Same place hermaphrodites do I suppose except instead of being born with both, just born with the wrong one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite

OK, so where do queers fit into this equation?

To be clearer, I was trying to say that they were just one among lots of genetic oddities.

[bannination]

O'Really, pardon me if this quote is off point but thought it was appropriate for the thread.

“There are a whole lot of religious people in America, including the majority of Democrats. When we abandon the field of religious discourse—when we ignore the debate about what it means to be a good Christian or Muslim or Jew; when we discuss religion only in the negative sense of where or how it should not be practiced, rather than in the positive sense of what it tells us about our obligations toward one another; when we shy away from religious venues and religious broadcasts because we assume that we will be unwelcome—others will fill the vacuum. And those who do are likely to be those with the most insular views of faith, or who cynically use religion to justify partisan ends.”
― Barack Obama, The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream

Wow, didn't know about that quote from Obama - Kudos to him!

[AntiAlias]

Christians believe in Gad as a matter of faith. Faith is without proof.

Belief if Christ takes faith, belief in an intelligent designer takes the five senses. The complexity of creation has nothing to do with faith, but facts. Just because there are imbeciles that can look at something as complex as the human body and claim it was created by chance is nothing new, there have been idiots around since the beginning.

Nobody thinks the human body was created by chance. Quite the opposite, actually.

[blackfoot]

Belief in a intelligent designer requires and idiot to believe it.

Who created a complex intelligent designer if complexity can't come naturally?

And the belief that "nothing" was the designer of all we see takes "what" kind of person to believe that?

Acccording to your reasoning (for lack of a better word) "nothing" is the key word in your argument. If there ever was a time when nothing at all existed, then there would be absolutely nothing today. It is an axiomatic truth that if nothing exists, then “nothing” will be the case, at all times. Nothing plus nothing equals nothing.
If at any time in history there was absolutely nothing but nothing, then logically speaking there cannot ever be something.

And you ask who created the designer? Thats a reasonable question that takes an open mind to understand, a quality not usually held by Atheist. Since it is the case that something does now exist, one must logically conclude that something has existed always. Now the question would be what has always exisited. Logically speaking, the “law of the excluded middle” states that a thing either is, or it is not. A line either is straight, or it is not straight. Since matter” is not eternal, then logically speaking, whatever created the complexity we see today is non-material in nature. Another word for non-material would be "Spirit" or spiritual in nature.

[bannination]

Belief in a intelligent designer requires and idiot to believe it.

Who created a complex intelligent designer if complexity can't come naturally?

And the belief that "nothing" was the designer of all we see takes "what" kind of person to believe that?

Acccording to your reasoning (for lack of a better word) "nothing" is the key word in your argument. If there ever was a time when nothing at all existed, then there would be absolutely nothing today. It is an axiomatic truth that if nothing exists, then “nothing” will be the case, at all times. Nothing plus nothing equals nothing.
If at any time in history there was absolutely nothing but nothing, then logically speaking there cannot ever be something.

And you ask who created the designer? Thats a reasonable question that takes an open mind to understand, a quality not usually held by Atheist. Since it is the case that something does now exist, one must logically conclude that something has existed always. Now the question would be what has always exisited. Logically speaking, the “law of the excluded middle” states that a thing either is, or it is not. A line either is straight, or it is not straight. Since matter” is not eternal, then logically speaking, whatever created the complexity we see today is non-material in nature. Another word for non-material would be "Spirit" or spiritual in nature.

Actually nothing was the key word your argument. There isn't any such thing as "nothing" even in empty space there are quantum fluctuations causing particles to snap into and out of existence. Matter as far as we know is eternal it may be converted to an energy state and vice versa, but it is eternal. There is a question of proton decay, experiments thus far have shown it will not decay.

Also; if something has "always" existed, why don't we cut to the chase and say our universe has always existed. Then we don't have to reach for such crazy explanations such as ghosts and spirits.

[Crock Hunter]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


.. By all means .. escort your next strawman to the gallows...

If you measured the total number of sticks at the various lengths it takes to build a simple little doll house. You took those sticks and threw them on the floor. How long would it take you and how many throws would it take to throw a simple doll house.

Likely never.. but your poor analogy reveals an even poorer understanding of the physical world... ..

Give those same sticks the equivalent of unique atomic or molecular properties governed by universal precepts and the outcome will always be a dollhouse... e.g. on Earth.. the free electrons from two Hydrogen atoms will join with Oxygen's six valence electrons to form a molecule of water.. .. .. those same properties allow water to form throughout the universe.

What appears to the unobservant as chaos ... is in reality not.. If it helps you to deal with the unknown to refer to the Universal Laws of Nature as "God" then all I can do is gently pat your empty head and help chase the monsters from under you bed..

[Crock Hunter]

For instance:

Pretty much every reason you gave for believing in the existence of a creator is pure bs. . .. from your moronic description of air to the stupidity of your ""yet every drop of water that has ever been on earth since the beginning of time" .. .. You must have been home schooled...

you'll probably agree with me.

perhaps.. .. if they like you, are science illiterates ..

[bannination]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


.. By all means .. escort your next strawman to the gallows...

If you measured the total number of sticks at the various lengths it takes to build a simple little doll house. You took those sticks and threw them on the floor. How long would it take you and how many throws would it take to throw a simple doll house.

Likely never.. but your poor analogy reveals an even poorer understanding of the physical world... ..

Give those same sticks the equivalent of unique atomic or molecular properties governed by universal precepts and the outcome will always be a dollhouse... e.g. on Earth.. the free electrons from two Hydrogen atoms will join with Oxygen's six valence electrons to form a molecule of water.. .. .. those same properties allow water to form throughout the universe.

What appears to the unobservant as chaos ... is in reality not.. If it helps you to deal with the unknown to refer to the Universal Laws of Nature as "God" then all I can do is gently pat your empty head and help chase the monsters from under you bed..

Looks like he understands entropy pretty well, to bad he can't grasp the concept that it naturally leads to and why evolution is the exact opposite.