We Are Legion

[\V/]

You got me...it's all a joke!!! I made it all up...there's no corporate/government corruption, and nobody has suffered...you seen through my plans
BTW~you missed all the references in videos, and the multitudes of websites devoted to help Anons that have been arrested...and most of all, the fact Anonymous is not only computer hackers...it is your brother, your sister, your mother, your father...basically, anyone that chooses to support the collective may do so, so your continued accusatory reply that I dupe individuals into downloading and using anything is as ludicrous as your limited argument...that's okay though~ I'm sure you can drum up another irrelevant reason to make-up...just saying

[O Really]

Sorry, Dude - I'm usually up for a good protest, but most of the vids have the believability level of the typical "New World Order" conspiracy people. While I might agree with Anonymous on some issues (CISPA, for example), and while we might agree that Scientology is bogus, I can't see that governments - all governments - are the total enemy. Got a link to a source that's not a promo vid that has some factual information?

[\V/]

Because corruption is wilfully hidden, it is impossible to measure directly; instead proxies for corruption are used.

Media outlets frequently use the raw numbers as a yardstick for government performance, without clarifying what the numbers mean. The local Transparency International chapter in Bangladesh disowned the index results after a change in methodology caused the country's scores to increase; media reported it as an "improvement".Other critics point out that definitional problems with the term "corruption" makes the tool problematic for social science.

Many lawyers advise international businesses to consult the CPI when attempting to measure the risk of Foreign Corrupt Practices Act violations in different nations. This practice has been criticized, since the CPI may be subject to perceptual biases and therefore should not be considered by lawyers to be a measure of actual national corruption risk.

Click the pic of the World Map for reference~

[\V/]

I suppose there is no need to produce evidence of the global banking cartel, and the criminal relationship with governments, or the certain known governments that use war to fuel it's economy...
I've always opposed the government for it's "Do as I say, not as I do" disposition...believe me when they do...the effect is devastating

[O Really]

Well that was a disappointing down the rabbit hole. Taking the data at face value, the US and UK are in the upper 25 percentile (on the good side) and Canada and Australia are even higher, using a narrow definition of "corruption" and measured by a "survey" of business people and analysts. That doesn't sound like we've become North Korea or Haiti. The study says it uses surveys and reports a "perception" index because of the difficulty of documenting actual corruption. Well, duh. "Yes, your Honor, I'm sure this guy is guilty as hell, but it's hard to prove the actual extent of his guilt, so I've asked his neighbors and their perception is that he's guilty..." Or not.

I don't doubt there's corruption, using the study's definition, and I'm sure the red countries are pretty awful in that issue, but if you hadn't read the study couldn't you guess which would be the darkest red countries?

I also don't doubt that one can find examples of wrongdoing by people in any government (or other organization) in the world. That report, however, leaves me with a McKayla look. I can find evil groups and evil individuals, but I haven't seen anything yet as to why the government(s) it/themselves are the enemy. I'd join you to work against specific legislation or to unseat specific people or parties, but if you want to overturn the government itself or wreck large parts of the economy for sport, I'll pass.

[O Really]

I suppose there is no need to produce evidence of the global banking cartel, and the criminal relationship with governments, or the certain known governments that use war to fuel it's economy...
I've always opposed the government for it's "Do as I say, not as I do" disposition...believe me when they do...the effect is devastating

Yeah, yeah, but you're still over-generalizing. I could say that the NC government was worse than Hitler, or I could recognize that what we've got for legislators is who some pissed off people voted for. Sure, they're proposing, and sometimes passing, some outrageous legislation, but is it "the government" who is wrong or is it "those currently in office"?

[O Really]

Anyone got an estimate of what percentage of Anonymactivists have been busted? If low-ish, there may be some safety and strength in numbers.

I think they did a great job with the Steubenville, OH rape case.

That would have to be a percentage of those who have actually done something illegal, not just a percentage of those who claim membership or affiliation.

[\V/]

Well that was a disappointing down the rabbit hole. Taking the data at face value, the US and UK are in the upper 25 percentile (on the good side) and Canada and Australia are even higher, using a narrow definition of "corruption" and measured by a "survey" of business people and analysts. That doesn't sound like we've become North Korea or Haiti. The study says it uses surveys and reports a "perception" index because of the difficulty of documenting actual corruption. Well, duh. "Yes, your Honor, I'm sure this guy is guilty as hell, but it's hard to prove the actual extent of his guilt, so I've asked his neighbors and their perception is that he's guilty..." Or not.

I don't doubt there's corruption, using the study's definition, and I'm sure the red countries are pretty awful in that issue, but if you hadn't read the study couldn't you guess which would be the darkest red countries?

I also don't doubt that one can find examples of wrongdoing by people in any government (or other organization) in the world. That report, however, leaves me with a McKayla look. I can find evil groups and evil individuals, but I haven't seen anything yet as to why the government(s) it/themselves are the enemy. I'd join you to work against specific legislation or to unseat specific people or parties, but if you want to overturn the government itself or wreck large parts of the economy for sport, I'll pass.

I appreciate the support then
I actually want to fix government...not overturn it, and as for wrecking large parts of the economy...I'm sure the government has already done that, my point is that people become more aware of what their government is doing

[rstrong]

I made it all up...there's no corporate/government corruption, and nobody has suffered...

One more time:

Opposing the dishonesty and sleaze among your pals - winding up the young and gullible up with claims of brotherhood and sisterhood and strength in numbers - that turn out to be utterly nonexistent when they get caught - doesn't mean that I approve of dishonesty and sleaze among others.

You post with all the honesty of a Fox News talking head.

BTW~you missed all the references in videos, and the multitudes of websites devoted to help Anons that have been arrested...

If you have examples, why don't you post them?

One thing you quickly learn from countering conspiracy theorists: YouTube links are shorthand for "I have no evidence or credible reasoning, so here; waste your time watching two hours of videos from other wingnuts who ALSO have no evidence or credible reasoning. The spooky background music and assorted melodrama should convince you!"

Frankly, the bits of your videos that I've watched do the same. Even when they DO have a valid point, it comes after so much cheesy melodrama and Adobe After Effects masturbation that any sane person gives up watching. If your goal is to impress 14-year-olds, you're bang-on. If you want to inform adults, you're doing it wrong.

If you have an actual point to make here on this forum, make it here. If a video is unavoidable, give us a time mark where they get to the point, where we can start watching.

and most of all, the fact Anonymous is not only computer hackers...it is your brother, your sister, your mother, your father...

Yes! That's the point I'm making!

They're not hackers. They're not security experts. So when they download your Denial of Service tool and run it, they don't know that you were spewing b*llsh*t when you claimed they were Anonymous. And a great many were gullible enough to believe in your equally dishonest "strength in numbers", "brothers and sisters" b*llsh*ttery.

basically, anyone that chooses to support the collective may do so, so your continued accusatory reply that I dupe individuals into

Riiiiiight. In the same sense, those home owners and pension plan investors duped by the banking system in recent years, **also** chose to take part. Shall we dismiss them just as easily?

[rstrong]

Anyone got an estimate of what percentage of Anonymactivists have been busted? If low-ish, there may be some safety and strength in numbers.

That would have to be a percentage of those who have actually done something illegal, not just a percentage of those who claim membership or affiliation.

I'm looking for that strength in numbers / brothers and sisters / solidarity.

Anonymous is so fond of their comic book fantasy character, but they need not engage in similar comic book fantasy antics.

How about a Kickstarter campaign successfully raising a significant percentage of legal fees for a significant number of those charged? (Helping one lone defendant would be an exception to the rule, not a disproof of the rule.)

Heck, when comic artist The Oatmeal was recently threatened with barratry, he used an Indiegogo campaign to raise $220,000.... for charity! And lawyers pretty much competed to offer him pro bono legal help.

Unions, student groups, independent truckers, farmers and others are known for banding together to protect their own.

I'm sure that somebody, somewhere has tried to do this within Anonymous. Surely it's happened. With all of Anonymous's strength in numbers, brothers and sisters, and solidarity, it **must** have happened.

But it's interesting how \V/ can't seem to name an instance of it.

[\V/]

If your problem regarding my posting active media of current operations, and other ongoing actions, is that the videos are cheesy, I'll be more than happy to post a version in text as well. Seeing as the other arguments you've presented are resolved, I hope it's helped answering those questions...and of course, thank you Vrede

[\V/]

rstrong sure has a burr in his britches for you as harsh as he's being, but he has a valid perspective.

Ah yes...some perspectives can seem valid, but there's more to it then that...as you noted
It is my opinion that rstrong mistook those arrested as unknowing, and unaware pawns...that doesn't make sense, but as you said 'perspective'
It is my opinion that rstrong also perceived Anonymous as a joke, and not much more then that...again, most things are formed from one's 'perception'
It is my opinion that rstrong perceived there was no means of assisting, or funds afforded to defend those detained
It is my opinion that rstrong sees 140+ reported arrests---not convictions...worldwide, and with over 6 years of the collectives activity as a large number...somehow :-0?>
It is my opinion that rstrong has access to the internet, apparently he forgot
link

[O Really]

I actually want to fix government...not overturn it, and as for wrecking large parts of the economy...I'm sure the government has already done that, my point is that people become more aware of what their government is doing [/color]

So is your "fixing" directed at those now in power in the government, or the government structure itself? What would constitute a successful "fix"?

[\V/]

I actually want to fix government...not overturn it, and as for wrecking large parts of the economy...I'm sure the government has already done that, my point is that people become more aware of what their government is doing

So is your "fixing" directed at those now in power in the government, or the government structure itself? What would constitute a successful "fix"?

[O Really]

I actually want to fix government...not overturn it, and as for wrecking large parts of the economy...I'm sure the government has already done that, my point is that people become more aware of what their government is doing

So is your "fixing" directed at those now in power in the government, or the government structure itself? What would constitute a successful "fix"?

That does nothing for anybody unless that awareness leads to some action in the direction you want. What do you want those "aware" people to do? And BTW, if your goal is education, you (collectively, not personally) need to do a better job of distinguishing yourselves from the conspiracy nuts. I don't know who the demographic target is for the vids, but it's not me. If you want people such as me to go along with you, you're going to need a lot more specifics, details, and evidence, along with a goal expressible in more than slogans.

[\V/]

I actually want to fix government...not overturn it, and as for wrecking large parts of the economy...I'm sure the government has already done that, my point is that people become more aware of what their government is doing

So is your "fixing" directed at those now in power in the government, or the government structure itself? What would constitute a successful "fix"?

That does nothing for anybody unless that awareness leads to some action in the direction you want. What do you want those "aware" people to do? And BTW, if your goal is education, you (collectively, not personally) need to do a better job of distinguishing yourselves from the conspiracy nuts. I don't know who the demographic target is for the vids, but it's not me. If you want people such as me to go along with you, you're going to need a lot more specifics, details, and evidence, along with a goal expressible in more than slogans.

Good advice...I'll see if I can include them in future posts

[O Really]

Link to comments at anonnews.org, which may or may not be a fair representation of current Anonymous thought. http://anonnews.org/press/item/2297/

Nevertheless, V, if you have a chance, read the original comment and those submitted by others on the topic and tell us how most of those posters differ from the ones at CPF that we all ridicule.

First paragraph from article...
"America is dead. We can't keep going with this government, but our citizens are too scared, and not informed enough to stand up and fight. Our education system is dead. Schools are about making money instead of teaching children. Unless something major happens, we are going to have some big problems. Even if voting counted for something, it wouldn't matter because we are a nation of ignorance. The majority of votes are based on name recognition. I am scared for my future in this country, I am more scared for the future of my children. We must change before it is too late. America is not run the way it used to be. Corruption has destroyed the chance for us to change the system using the system. Washington wants everything to stay as is because they are making money. As long as they get payed, they could care less about the countrys future."

[O Really]

I think the melodrama and overly broad generalizations tend to negate anything that might otherwise be accurate. A wind and rain storm might do some damage, but it doesn't mean the sky is actually falling.

[O Really]

Fair enough, but it's the norm for almost all activist groups, left and right, not unique to Anonymous.

Understood. I know that for a group to be noticed, it usually has to do something outrageous. PETA, for example, would not get much attention without the dramatics. But that approach is a two-edged sword that risks alienating a lot of people that might otherwise generally support the cause. I have made what I'd consider a fair effort to learn about Anonymous. Thus far, I've found a lot of torches and pitchforks, not so much else. But maybe I'm not part of their target demo anyway?

[O Really]

For example...

Do you really believe "Schools are about making money instead of teaching children"? Who are "schools"? The administration? The legislators cutting budgets? Certainly not the teachers who aren't making any money, have no power in the running of the schools but (mostly) show up every day to give their best to educating their students.