Futbol

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GoCubsGo
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by GoCubsGo »

O Really wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2026 10:48 am
So even though I certainly liked it better when stadiums were named "Three Rivers" and "Candlestick Park", "Mile High" etc., it does seem that with the rise of sponsored names, that Lumen Field is, at least for the current contract the official legal name of the Seahawk's home field. Why is it they aren't using those names for the World Cup games? Surely it can't be that FIFA sees their product as non-commercial. And probably non-political? Right, that's the ticket. :roll:

And did the corporate name sponsors who paid millions for the naming rights get a vote here? ($625 million from SoFi - to be called "Los Angeles Stadium" during arguably one of the biggest events held there.)

More corruption?
:lol: :o :P
FIFA does this because of its "clean stadium" rules: stadium names that contain corporate sponsors are temporarily replaced unless that sponsor is an official FIFA partner. The same policy has been used at previous World Cups and other major international tournaments
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Eamus Catuli~AC 000000 000101 010202 020303 010304 020405....Ahhhh, forget it, it's gonna be a while.


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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

GoCubsGo wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2026 11:20 am
O Really wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2026 10:48 am
So even though I certainly liked it better when stadiums were named "Three Rivers" and "Candlestick Park", "Mile High" etc., it does seem that with the rise of sponsored names, that Lumen Field is, at least for the current contract the official legal name of the Seahawk's home field. Why is it they aren't using those names for the World Cup games? Surely it can't be that FIFA sees their product as non-commercial. And probably non-political? Right, that's the ticket. :roll:

And did the corporate name sponsors who paid millions for the naming rights get a vote here? ($625 million from SoFi - to be called "Los Angeles Stadium" during arguably one of the biggest events held there.)

More corruption?
:lol: :o :P
FIFA does this because of its "clean stadium" rules: stadium names that contain corporate sponsors are temporarily replaced unless that sponsor is an official FIFA partner. The same policy has been used at previous World Cups and other major international tournaments
https://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... -gif-1.gif
Thanks guys, I wondered. Even if FIFA greed is the motive, I like it. :thumbup:
Vrede too wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2026 10:37 pm

I'm 3-3-4 so far.


Mon 6/15

12:00 PM Atlanta Stadium
Spain (-2.5) vs Cape Verde, go futbol
0-0 :shock: Spain, 50M people, has been picked by many to win it all. Cape Verde is a West African archipelago with 500K people in their 1st WC. Their 40 year old goalie kicked ass :clap: .

3:00 PM Seattle Field
Go Belgium (-0.75) > Egypt
1-1, aww.
I'm 3-3-5 so far.


6:00 PM Miami Stadium
GO Uruguay (-1.5) > Saudi Arabia
Uruguay scores an equalizer at 80', 1-1 :thumbup: Encore!
EDIT: 1-1 final :|
I'm 3-3-6 so far.


9:00 PM Los Angeles Stadium
Iran (-0.5) vs New Zealand, go futbol
See-saw game, 2-2.
4 draws today. If I don't pick a winner in a draw should I count that as a winning point for me?

Vrede too wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2026 7:07 pm
I'm 3-3-6 so far.
Tue Jun 16

3:00 PM New York New Jersey Stadium
Go Senegal > France (-1.5)

6:00 PM Boston Stadium
GO Norway (-2.5) > Iraq

9:00 PM Kansas City Stadium
Go Algeria > Argentina (-1.5)

Wed 6/17

12:00 AM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Jordan > Austria (-1.5)
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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

Vrede too wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2026 7:07 pm

Spain (-2.5) vs Cape Verde, go futbol
0-0 :shock: Spain, 50M people, has been picked by many to win it all. Cape Verde is a West African archipelago with 500K people in their 1st WC. Their 40 year old goalie kicked ass :clap: .

Cape Verde viral goalie Vozinha grows Instagram following by 10,000% after historic Spain result

On the biggest stage of his life, Vozinha delivered the performance of a lifetime.

Playing in goal for Cape Verde against powerhouse Spain, Vozinha made seven saves -- including a few excellent ones -- to preserve a historic 0-0 draw.

It was the first-ever World Cup match for Cape Verde, and not much was expected by the footballing world.

But thanks in large part to Vozinha, as well as tenacious defending in front of him, they held Spain scoreless.

The world was certainly watching, and now they're following along.

Vozinha began the day with 50,000 followers on Instagram.

He ended it with more than five million.
11 times the population of Cape Verde :shock: and that's after one game.
... It didn't matter if anyone expected Cape Verde to contain Spain.

What matters is that Vozinha and his teammates actually did it.
:happy-cheerleaderkid:

Vrede too wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2026 9:46 pm
.Oomba. wrote:
Wed May 20, 2026 9:17 pm
... I also root for Borussia Dortmund and Inter Milan.
Germany bullied Curacao 7-1 :o
Italy did not qualify after being beaten by Bosnia and Herzegovina, sorry. It's a new record of shame for a former champion....
Why Italy isn't in the 2026 FIFA World Cup after disaster qualifying

Italy has won the FIFA World Cup four times.

But if you've watched the last few editions of the tournament, you wouldn't know that. The Italian side hasn't even been taking part.

Italy missed the 2026 World Cup in North America. It's their third consecutive miss.

They weren't part of the 2022 tournament.

They weren't in the 2018 tourney, either.

It's been a disastrous run for the Italians.

Why isn't Italy in the 2026 FIFA World Cup?

Italy isn't in the 2026 FIFA World Cup because it didn't qualify.

That's a particular disaster given that this is the first year of the tourney's expansion from 32 teams to 48 -- it was easier to qualify than ever.

The final nail was put in Italy's coffin when, during the UEFA playoff final, Bosnia and Herzegovina beat Italy on penalty kicks....
I always hated that.
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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

Vrede too wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2026 7:07 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2026 7:07 pm
I'm 3-3-6 so far.
Tue Jun 16

3:00 PM New York New Jersey Stadium
Go Senegal > France (-1.5)
1-3 :(

6:00 PM Boston Stadium
GO Norway (-2.5) > Iraq
4-1 :thumbup:
I'm 4-4-6 so far.


9:00 PM Kansas City Stadium
Go Algeria > Argentina (-1.5)
0-3 :thumbdown: Messi hat trick :-|| GOAT? There's no joy in Lawrence tonight.
Algeria national team making Lawrence home before first World Cup match
I'm 4-5-6 so far.

Wed 6/17

12:00 AM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Go Jordan > Austria (-1.5)
1-3
I'm 4-6-6 so far.
Wed 6/17

1:00 PM Houston Stadium
Go Portugal (-1.5) > Congo DR

4:00 PM Dallas Stadium
Go England (-0.5) > Croatia, GoO Really's MumGo!

7:00 PM Toronto Stadium
Go Ghana (-0.5) > Panama

10:00 PM Mexico City Stadium
Uzbekistan vs Colombia (-1.5), go futbol
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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

Vrede too wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2026 8:42 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2026 7:07 pm


Wed 6/17

12:00 AM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Go Jordan > Austria (-1.5)
1-3
I'm 4-6-6 so far.
Wed 6/17

1:00 PM Houston Stadium
Go Portugal (-1.5) > Congo DR
1-1 :| No scoring in the 2nd half :yawn:
I'm 4-6-7 so far.


4:00 PM Dallas Stadium
Go England (-0.5) > Croatia, GoO Really's MumGo!
4-2 :clap: CONGRATS!
I'm 5-6-7 so far.


7:00 PM Toronto Stadium
Go Ghana (-0.5) > Panama
1-0, 90'+5', Phew!
I'm 6-6-7 so far.


10:00 PM Mexico City Stadium
Uzbekistan vs Colombia (-1.5), go futbol
3-1
1st round standings

Group A
1 Mexico 3 :thumbup:
2 South Korea 3
3 Czechia 0
4 South Africa 0 :(

Group B
1 Switzerland 1
2 Canada 1
3 Qatar 1
4 Bosnia and Herzegovina 1
:shock:

Group C
1 Scotland 3
2 Morocco 1
3 Brazil 1
4 Haiti 0 :(

Group D
1 USA 3
2 Australia 3 :clap:
3 Turkiye 0
4 Paraguay 0

Group E
1 Germany 3
2 Ivory Coast 3 :clap:
3 Ecuador 0
4 Curacao 0

Group F
1 Sweden 3
2 Japan 1
3 Netherlands 1
4 Tunisia 0

Group G
1 New Zealand 1
2 Iran 1
3 Belgium 1
4 Egypt 1
:shock:

Group H
1 Uruguay 1
2 Saudi Arabia 1
3 Spain 1
4 Cape Verde 1
:shock:

Group I
1 Norway 3
2 France 3
3 Senegal 0
4 Iraq 0

Group J
1 Argentina 3
2 Austria 3
3 Jordan 0
4 Algeria 0

Group K
1 Colombia 3
2 Congo DR 1
3 Portugal 1
4 Uzbekistan 0

Group L
1 England 3 :clap:
2 Ghana 3 :clap:
3 Panama 0
4 Croatia 0

Thu 6/18

12:00 PM Atlanta Stadium
Go South Africa > Czechia (-0.5)

3:00 PM Los Angeles Stadium
Go Bosnia and Herzegovina > Switzerland (-0.5)

6:00 PM BC Place Vancouver
Go Canada (-1.5, home field edge) > Qatar. GoO ReallyGo!

9:00 PM Estadio Guadalajara
Go Mexico (-0.5, home field edge) > South Korea
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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

Vrede too wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2026 3:05 pm

I'm 6-6-7 so far.


Thu 6/18

12:00 PM Atlanta Stadium
Go South Africa > Czechia (-0.5)
1 (SA pulls even with PK in '83) -1

3:00 PM Los Angeles Stadium
Go Bosnia and Herzegovina > Switzerland (-0.5)
1-4 :roll:
I'm 6-7-7 so far.


6:00 PM BC Place Vancouver
Go Canada (-1.5, home field edge) > Qatar. GoO ReallyGo!
6 :o - 0. Congrats. Includes 1 Qatari own goal. Qatar got its 2nd red card with 40 minutes remaining, an almost impossible disadvantage to overcome. GoCanadaGo!
I'm 7-7-7 so far.


9:00 PM Estadio Guadalajara
Go Mexico (-0.5, home field edge) > South Korea
1-0, 50' :clap: 1st team to win its group and move on to the knockout round :-||
I'm 8-7-7 so far. Finally back in the black.
:happy-cheerleaderkid:
Fri 6/19

3:00 PM Seattle Field
Go Australia > USA (-0.5)

6:00 PM Boston Stadium
Go Morocco (-0.5) > Scotland

8:30 PM Philadelphia Stadium
Go Haiti > Brazil (-2.5). Yeah, right :roll:

11:00 PM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Go Turkiye (-0.5) > Paraguay
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supesalemgr2
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by supesalemgr2 »

Vrede too wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2026 2:40 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2026 3:05 pm

I'm 6-6-7 so far.


Thu 6/18

12:00 PM Atlanta Stadium
Go South Africa > Czechia (-0.5)
1 (SA pulls even with PK in '83) -1

3:00 PM Los Angeles Stadium
Go Bosnia and Herzegovina > Switzerland (-0.5)
1-4 :roll:
I'm 6-7-7 so far.


6:00 PM BC Place Vancouver
Go Canada (-1.5, home field edge) > Qatar. GoO ReallyGo!
6 :o - 0. Congrats. Includes 1 Qatari own goal. Qatar got its 2nd red card with 40 minutes remaining, an almost impossible disadvantage to overcome. GoCanadaGo!
I'm 7-7-7 so far.


9:00 PM Estadio Guadalajara
Go Mexico (-0.5, home field edge) > South Korea
1-0, 50' :clap: 1st team to win its group and move on to the knockout round :-||
I'm 8-7-7 so far. Finally back in the black.
:happy-cheerleaderkid:
Fri 6/19

3:00 PM Seattle Field
Go Australia > USA (-0.5)

6:00 PM Boston Stadium
Go Morocco (-0.5) > Scotland

8:30 PM Philadelphia Stadium
Go Haiti > Brazil (-2.5). Yeah, right :roll:

11:00 PM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Go Turkiye (-0.5) > Paraguay
Am I reading correctly you are rooting for Australia over the USA? If so, please share with us why?

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Re: Futbol

Unread post by supesalemgr2 »

supesalemgr2 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2026 6:18 am
Vrede too wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2026 2:40 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2026 3:05 pm

I'm 6-6-7 so far.


Thu 6/18

12:00 PM Atlanta Stadium
Go South Africa > Czechia (-0.5)
1 (SA pulls even with PK in '83) -1

3:00 PM Los Angeles Stadium
Go Bosnia and Herzegovina > Switzerland (-0.5)
1-4 :roll:
I'm 6-7-7 so far.


6:00 PM BC Place Vancouver
Go Canada (-1.5, home field edge) > Qatar. GoO ReallyGo!
6 :o - 0. Congrats. Includes 1 Qatari own goal. Qatar got its 2nd red card with 40 minutes remaining, an almost impossible disadvantage to overcome. GoCanadaGo!
I'm 7-7-7 so far.


9:00 PM Estadio Guadalajara
Go Mexico (-0.5, home field edge) > South Korea
1-0, 50' :clap: 1st team to win its group and move on to the knockout round :-||
I'm 8-7-7 so far. Finally back in the black.
:happy-cheerleaderkid:
Fri 6/19

3:00 PM Seattle Field
Go Australia > USA (-0.5)

6:00 PM Boston Stadium
Go Morocco (-0.5) > Scotland

8:30 PM Philadelphia Stadium
Go Haiti > Brazil (-2.5). Yeah, right :roll:

11:00 PM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Go Turkiye (-0.5) > Paraguay
Am I reading correctly you are rooting for Australia over the USA? If so, please share with us why?
I wonder why Vrede has not responded to my question?

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O Really
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by O Really »

Dunno about Vrede - maybe he didn't read your post. Maybe he's washing his hair. As for me, they've got a better nickname (socceroos), better kits, better national attitude, and it's mor fun to say "Aussie Aussie Aussie, oi oi oi!" than "USA USA USA"

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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2026 4:03 pm
Dunno about Vrede - maybe he didn't read your post.
I only read SoupySales if someone quotes him, not that you should go to the effort this time.
Maybe he's washing his hair.
How do you know that I only have one left? ;)
As for me, they've got a better nickname (socceroos), better kits, better national attitude, and it's more fun to say "Aussie Aussie Aussie, oi oi oi!" than "USA USA USA"
:clap:
Vrede too wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2026 9:58 pm
GoCubsGo wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2026 8:43 pm
I guess I'm too much of a homer.

I want to see the USA do well.
I'm ambivalent. I like seeing Americans get excited about the WC, but Dementia Don and FIFA have kind of ruined it for me. :problem:
GoCubsGo wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2026 9:12 pm
USA! USA!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

That poor Paraguayon player.
:o I hate it when that happens.
USA USA USA has begun both of its games with OGs by its opponent. :crazy:

I've also spent about a month in Australia and really liked it, oi oi oi!

USA USA USA also scored a thrilling header, wins 2-0, moves on to the knockout round. If it beats Turkiye Thursday it also wins the group. Congrats, GoCubsGo and I assume SoupySales.
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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

Vrede too wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2026 2:40 pm


I'm 8-7-7 so far. Finally back in the black.
:happy-cheerleaderkid:
Fri 6/19

3:00 PM Seattle Field
Go Australia > USA (-0.5)
0-2 :(
I'm 8-8-7 so far. Back to .500


6:00 PM Boston Stadium
Go Morocco (-0.5) > Scotland
1-0.
I'm 9-8-7 so far. Back in black :clap:


8:30 PM Philadelphia Stadium
Go Haiti > Brazil (-2.5). Yeah, right :roll:
0-3 :thumbdown: They're no Cape Vrede and neither is their goalie ... Opps, Cape Verde ;)
I'm 9-9-7 so far. Back to .500 :roll:


11:00 PM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Go Turkiye (-0.5) > Paraguay
0-1, upset :ateeth:
I'm 9-10-7 so far, loser again :roll:


Sat Jun 20

1:00 PM Houston Stadium
GO Netherlands (-0.5) > Sweden. Oranje!

4:00 PM Toronto Stadium
Go Ivory Coast > Germany (-1.5)

8:00 PM Kansas City Stadium
Go Curacao > Ecuador (-2.5) :roll: Yeah, right.

Sun 6/21

12:00 AM Estadio Monterrey
Go Tunisia > Japan (-0.5)
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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

Vrede too wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2026 7:32 pm
I'm 9-10-7 so far, loser again :roll:

Sat Jun 20

1:00 PM Houston Stadium
GO Netherlands (-0.5) > Sweden. Oranje!
5-1 :shock: Stomped with wooden clogs.
I'm 10-10-7 so far


4:00 PM Toronto Stadium
Go Ivory Coast > Germany (-1.5)
1-0 30' - 67' :wtf: Please, please . . .
EDIT: Jinxed 'em, 1-1 68' :angry-banghead:
EDIT: 1-2 90'+4', then FT :x
I'm 10-11-7 so far
Germany advances, the 3rd after Mexico and USA USA USA.


8:00 PM Kansas City Stadium
Go Curacao > Ecuador (-2.5) :roll: Yeah, right.
0-0 upset, 1st ever WC point for Curacao :clap:
I'm 10-11-8 so far
Germany wins its group


Sun 6/21

12:00 AM Estadio Monterrey
Go Tunisia > Japan (-0.5)
0-4 :thumbdown:
I'm 10-12-8 so far
Sun 6/21

12:00 PM Atlanta Stadium
GO Spain (-2.5) > Saudi Arabia

3:00 PM Los Angeles Stadium
GO Iran > Belgium (-1.5)

6:00 PM Miami Stadium
GO Cape Verde > Uruguay (-1.5)

9:00 PM BC Place Vancouver
GO New Zealand > Egypt (-0.5)
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

The price to watch the USMNT's Round of 32 match is already staggering

... Since the U.S. capitalized on their opportunity to win the group with a game left to play, it means that the date and venue for their upcoming Round of 32 game is already decided: July 1st in the Bay Area, playing at the home of the NFL's San Francisco 49ers.

... Per SeatGeek, the cheapest ticket for the USMNT in their first knockout round match is a little under $4,000 with the chance of it rising over the next week as anticipation continues to grow....
:puke-left:

$4,000 x Capacity 68,500 = $274,000,000. Revenues from vendors and worldwide TV get added to that. :o That's one game.
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

Interesting couple of headlines on the BBC's WC homepage:

The beauty of sharing the first World Cup with your child

Winger Jeremy Doku has been criticised for saying he wants to leave Belgium's World Cup camp to be with his wife when she gives birth to their first child.

Different situations, of course, and Doku's chief critic has now backed off, but the contrasting perspectives are striking to me.
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by supesalemgr2 »

Vrede too wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2026 8:15 am
The price to watch the USMNT's Round of 32 match is already staggering

... Since the U.S. capitalized on their opportunity to win the group with a game left to play, it means that the date and venue for their upcoming Round of 32 game is already decided: July 1st in the Bay Area, playing at the home of the NFL's San Francisco 49ers.

... Per SeatGeek, the cheapest ticket for the USMNT in their first knockout round match is a little under $4,000 with the chance of it rising over the next week as anticipation continues to grow....
:puke-left:

$4,000 x Capacity 68,500 = $274,000,000. Revenues from vendors and worldwide TV get added to that. :o That's one game.
That is amazing. However, whatever the market allows is the proper price.

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O Really
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by O Really »

Are those prices ticket face or re-sale market?

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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

O Really wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2026 12:58 pm
Are those prices ticket face or re-sale market?
"Per SeatGeek ... with the chance of it rising over the next week as anticipation continues to grow." is as much as I know.
Last edited by Vrede too on Sun Jun 21, 2026 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

Vrede too wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2026 5:33 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2026 7:32 pm


Sun 6/21

12:00 AM Estadio Monterrey
Go Tunisia > Japan (-0.5)
0-4 :thumbdown:
I'm 10-12-8 so far
Sun 6/21

12:00 PM Atlanta Stadium
GO Spain (-2.5) > Saudi Arabia
4-0 :clap:
I'm 11-12-8 so far
Fastest WC to 100 goals ever


3:00 PM Los Angeles Stadium
GO Iran > Belgium (-1.5)
0-0, mini upset :thumbup:
I'm 11-12-9 so far


6:00 PM Miami Stadium
GO Cape Verde > Uruguay (-1.5)
2-2, another mini upset :clap: :clap: Cape Verde scores 1st ever WC goals. It's tied for 2nd in its group, with only weak Saudi Arabia remaining. It could even win the group if Uruguay beats or ties Spain.
I'm 11-12-10 so far


9:00 PM BC Place Vancouver
GO New Zealand > Egypt (-0.5)
NZ won the 1st half 1-0. Final score 1-3 :angry-banghead:
I'm 11-13-10 so far
Mon 6/22

1:00 PM Dallas Stadium
Argentina (-1.5) vs Austria, go futbol.

5:00 PM Philadelphia Stadium
Go France (-2.5) > Iraq

8:00 PM New York New Jersey Stadium
Go Senegal > Norway (-0.5)

11:00 PM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Go Jordan > Algeria (-0.5)
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Vrede too
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by Vrede too »

Vrede too wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2026 3:37 pm
I'm 11-13-10 so far


Mon 6/22

1:00 PM Dallas Stadium
Argentina (-1.5) vs Austria, go futbol.
Messi does it again. He becomes men's World Cup all-time leading scorer, having scored all 5 of Argentina's goals. :-|| GOAT. 2-0

5:00 PM Philadelphia Stadium
Go France (-2.5) > Iraq

8:00 PM New York New Jersey Stadium
Go Senegal > Norway (-0.5)

11:00 PM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Go Jordan > Algeria (-0.5)
Last edited by Vrede too on Mon Jun 22, 2026 7:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Futbol

Unread post by supesalemgr2 »

Vrede too wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2026 2:25 pm
Vrede too wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2026 3:37 pm
I'm 11-13-10 so far


Mon 6/22

1:00 PM Dallas Stadium
Argentina (-1.5) vs Austria, go futbol.
Messi does it again. He becomes men's World Cup all-time leading scorer. :-|| GOAT.

5:00 PM Philadelphia Stadium
Go France (-2.5) > Iraq

8:00 PM New York New Jersey Stadium
Go Senegal > Norway (-0.5)

11:00 PM San Francisco Bay Area Stadium
Go Jordan > Algeria (-0.5)
I find it interesting (hypocritical) that FIFA has required American stadiums to take corporate sponsors off their names for the World Cup. There is no shortage of examples where the guys who run FIFA are corrupt. I guess they couldn't shake down these entities with their hands out.