Gun Legislation

[Ombudsman]

That said, this is not the first I've heard of some gun laws originally being targeted at blacks. It just has no relevance now.

No doubt about it. Many laws were made to treat blacks and whites differently. But it's amusing that gun nuts would pretend that's why they want the law changed. It's more amusing that they would refer to legislation that changes gun laws that were passed during a variety of time periods as "undoing Jim Crow Era laws."

I generally expect more from Wneglia than posting opinion pieces from The Daily Beast, news articles from gun nut blogs, and commentary from pro gun websites.

[Wneglia]

LOL, it's funny that Wneglia posted a quote without citing the source, here also, while linking a Wiki article that does not contain the quote he posted. What's up with that?

"Hallertaur"?

That said, this is not the first I've heard of some gun laws originally being targeted at blacks. It just has no relevance now.

Hallertaur is the name used by whomever edited out the passage in Wikipedia, within an hour after I posted it. I suspect someone on this forum is Hallertaur.

[Wneglia]

Oh. The original still was a cited quote from the gunhuggers, right?

Back to the main point - Do you really think the 1919 motivation has any relevance now?

I'll take Bud's word for it as to the source of the quote. It probably doesn't have much relevance in the current legislation, but there is little relevance in many pieces of legislation.

[O Really]

The gun ummm "enthusiasts" like to say that evil shooters go to schools because they're a "gun-free zone" and thus unprotected. Opps.
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/the-b ... f-violence

"As far back as 2002, the Secret Service and U.S. Department of Education analyzed school shootings and uncovered disturbing trends.

That report said 95 percent of attackers were current students. The remaining 5 percent were former students.

"Most attackers had a grievance against at least one of their targets prior to the attack," the report said."

[O Really]

http://www.amazon.com/Guns-in-America-e ... ngton+post

Guns in America
The Fight of the Century.
That's what Wayne LaPierre, the National Rifle Association's fiery leader, has promised now that President Obama has proposed some of the most sweeping gun reforms in decades.
For more than a year, The Washington Post examined the long, bloody history of gun control in America, an investigation that was reopened and expanded after the massacre of first-graders in Newtown, Connecticut.
In a series of articles and web documentaries, Post journalists have shined a light on the hidden life of guns in the country. This prize-winning reporting, collected in an eBook edition for the first time, reveals how politics have hamstrung efforts to curb gun violence, how U.S. guns have fueled the drug war along the Mexican border, and how most of the illegal guns in America are distributed by just a handful of dealers. Most recently, the Post has looked deeply into the power of the NRA as it mounts its biggest battle yet in the 40-year-old war over the Second Amendment.

[Wneglia]

[Ombudsman]

What's not surprising is that you linked to a right wing article that cherry picks the report instead of to the report itself. Here's the full context of the quote from your source. The portion in red are the only parts your source chooses to quote of this section. Wonder why they left out the rest particularly the part in bold?

Defensive uses of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defen- sive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimiza- tion Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numer- ous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun- wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004). Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed, both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings. Even when defensive use of guns is effective in averting death or in- jury for the gun user in cases of crime, it is still possible that keeping a gun in the home or carrying a gun in public—concealed or open carry— may have a different net effect on the rate of injury. For example, if gun ownership raises the risk of suicide, homicide, or the use of weapons by those who invade the homes of gun owners this could cancel or outweigh the beneficial effects of defensive gun use (Kellermann et al., 1992, 1993, 1995). Although some early studies were published that relate to this issue, they were not conclusive, and this is a sufficiently important question that it merits additional, careful exploration.

Wonder why the Right wing blogosphere isn't quoting this page? http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18319&page=13

Between the years 2000 and 2010, firearm-related suicides signifi- cantly outnumbered homicides for all age groups, annually accounting for 61 percent of the more than 335,600 people who died from firearm- related violence in the United States.6,7 The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths. Specifi- cally, since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individu- als were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons (Bjelopera et al., 2013). Although overall crime rates have declined in the past decade and violent crimes, including homicides, specifically, have declined in the past 5 years (FBI, 2011a), crime-related deaths involving firearms re- main a serious threat. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI’s) Uniform Crime Reporting Program, 68,720 people were mur- dered in firearm-related violence between 2007 and 2011. During that same timeframe, firearms accounted for more than twice as many murders as all other weapons combined (FBI, 2011b). More than two-thirds of victims murdered by a spouse or ex-spouse died as a result of a gun- shot wound (Cooper and Smith, 2011). Over 600,000 victims of robbery and other crimes reported that they faced an assailant armed with a gun (Truman and Rand, 2010).

[Wneglia]

[Ombudsman]

You're smarter than that. A more accurate analogy would be to say, "No gun control is like saying it's okay to drink and drive."

[O Really]

Front Sight http://www.frontsight.com/ is one of the leading companies involved in gun training. They are supporters of most of what the NRA likes, strong "individual" Second Amendment supporters, and have offered free training to teachers and others, generally encouraging everybody in the country to go around armed. They are by no means anything but hard core gun people. What do they say about training? "Anybody who owns a gun and does not get professional training is more likely to harm themselves than to harm an intruder." Sure, their business is training, so they're a bit biased, but that view sure flies in the face of the NRA position (and that of former poster Mad American) who thinks just owning a gun is enough and that no training should be required to own a gun.

[O Really]

Another (apparently) "law-abiding citizen" with (apparently) a legal gun shoots the ex, her boyfriend, and himself. So I'm guessing he was a "law-abiding citizen" until he shot the first one, then he was one of the "only outlaws will have guns," and then when he shot himself, he was "mentally disturbed"?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/52358978#.UdGPBtK-org

[Cowboy]

In the latest tragic shooting fatality to involve small children, a 4-year-old boy in Kentucky allegedly shot and killed his 6-year-old sister Sunday morning after the boy picked up his grandfather's gun.

The names of the two children have not yet been released.

The apparently accidental shooting occurred sometime Sunday morning in Hopkinsville, according to local NBC affiliate WSMV. The station reports that William Wyatt, the siblings' grandfather, had been cleaning his gun and walked away for a few moments, which was when the brother picked it up and allegedly pointed it at his sister.

"I'm sitting here, I just came off the chair and picked her up, and put her in my arms, and I held her until the rescue squad came here," Wyatt said, according to WSMV.

The sister was taken first to Jennie Stuart Medical Center and then transferred to Monroe Carell Jr. Children's Hospital at Vanderbilt in Nashville, where she died late Sunday night, according to News Channel 5.

"People have to be careful. If they're going to have a weapon they have to be responsible, and it's unfortunate that it takes tragedy for people to come to the realization they have to be responsible," Rochelle Mendoza, a neighbor of the family, told News Channel 5.

This most recent death mirrors a similar tragedy that played out in Kentucky in April. In that case, a 5-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed his 2-year-old sister with a .22-caliber rifle he received as a birthday present. A few weeks earlier, 6-year-old Brandon Holt was shot and killed by a 4-year-old friend.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/0 ... 29486.html

How do you clean a loaded gun?

[Boatrocker]

Insurers dropping Kansas schools over concealed-carry law for teachers

Opps. That Law of Unintended Consequences is a cold bitch.

[Wneglia]

Stand Your Ground Defense

Only in South Carolina.

[O Really]

Stand Your Ground Defense

Only in South Carolina.

Well, the Supreme Court isn't ruling on the merits of his self-defense claim (which he's sure to lose), but only on when the lower court should have heard his claim. But the article does seem to make the SC courts look pretty silly. I expected it to be a Guardian or NY Post article - not from a SC newspaper.

[Boatrocker]

Or the whackjob neighborhood watch psycho decided to stalk and confront you when you are doing nothing wrong?

[O Really]

Could the law be so poorly written that a home invader can theoretically claim it? If not, what's the cut off? If, say, someone is engaged in petty vandalism like graffiti and the owner irrationally comes after the tagger with a gun, could the tagger stand his ground?

It could be, but it's not. It's the same language the NRA has been getting passed all over:

" A person who is NOT ENGAGED IN AN UNLAWFUL ACTIVITY and who is attacked in another place where he has a right to be, including, but not limited
to, his place of business, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he reasonably believes it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or another person or to prevent the commission of a violent crime as defined in Section 16–1–60."

[O Really]

More from the inmates running the asylum...

North Carolina lawmakers have approved a bill greatly expanding where concealed handguns are legally allowed.

The Republican-backed bill approved by both the House and Senate on Tuesday allows concealed-carry permit holders to take firearms into bars and restaurants and other places where alcohol is served as long as the owner doesn't expressly forbid it.

The measure will also allow concealed-carry permit holders to store weapons in locked cars on the campus of any public school or university. Guns will also now be allowed on greenways, playgrounds and other public recreation areas.

The final bill dropped a controversial provision that would have repealed the long-standing law requiring a background check and permit issued by county sheriffs for handgun purchases.

The measure now heads to Republican Gov. Pat McCrory's desk.

[O Really]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07 ... niper?lite

A tragedy all around. If only Kyle had been armed and trained in firearms... oh wait...

[Ombudsman]

It was pretty stupid of Kyle to try and rehabilitate a guy suffering with serious PTSD issues by taking him to a gun range. Just goes to show the obsession gun nuts have with their weapons.

Meanwhile gun nut Keith Ratliff's killer remains on the loose. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-say.html