Gun Legislation

[Roland Deschain]

More from the inmates running the asylum...

North Carolina lawmakers have approved a bill greatly expanding where concealed handguns are legally allowed.

The Republican-backed bill approved by both the House and Senate on Tuesday allows concealed-carry permit holders to take firearms into bars and restaurants and other places where alcohol is served as long as the owner doesn't expressly forbid it.

The measure will also allow concealed-carry permit holders to store weapons in locked cars on the campus of any public school or university. Guns will also now be allowed on greenways, playgrounds and other public recreation areas.

The final bill dropped a controversial provision that would have repealed the long-standing law requiring a background check and permit issued by county sheriffs for handgun purchases.

The measure now heads to Republican Gov. Pat McCrory's desk.

Why do you oppose allowing people, who have undergone rigorous checks, the ability to legally carry their guns into a bar or restaurant or to have them in their vehicle on a campus?? The people with CCP's are the good guys...why do you not want them armed if they choose to be?

[O Really]

More from the inmates running the asylum...

North Carolina lawmakers have approved a bill greatly expanding where concealed handguns are legally allowed.

The Republican-backed bill approved by both the House and Senate on Tuesday allows concealed-carry permit holders to take firearms into bars and restaurants and other places where alcohol is served as long as the owner doesn't expressly forbid it.

The measure will also allow concealed-carry permit holders to store weapons in locked cars on the campus of any public school or university. Guns will also now be allowed on greenways, playgrounds and other public recreation areas.

The final bill dropped a controversial provision that would have repealed the long-standing law requiring a background check and permit issued by county sheriffs for handgun purchases.

The measure now heads to Republican Gov. Pat McCrory's desk.

Why do you oppose allowing people, who have undergone rigorous checks, the ability to legally carry their guns into a bar or restaurant or to have them in their vehicle on a campus?? The people with CCP's are the good guys...why do you not want them armed if they choose to be?

Largely from many of the same reasons every university system police chief and as far as I can tell every city police chief that commented objected. There's been a lot of "good guys" turn bad with a drink or so and a disagreement.

[Roland Deschain]

Largely from many of the same reasons every university system police chief and as far as I can tell every city police chief that commented objected. There's been a lot of "good guys" turn bad with a drink or so and a disagreement.

A very PC answer. However, one would think that for something you so vehemently oppose you could at least list a few reasons. In addition while it might be legal to carry into a bar/restaurant, carrying while consuming alcohol is still a no no.

[O Really]

Largely from many of the same reasons every university system police chief and as far as I can tell every city police chief that commented objected. There's been a lot of "good guys" turn bad with a drink or so and a disagreement.

A very PC answer. However, one would think that for something you so vehemently oppose you could at least list a few reasons. In addition while it might be legal to carry into a bar/restaurant, carrying while consuming alcohol is still a no no.

No need to "list a few reasons." There's nothing unique about my views. It's the same common sense expressed by the chiefs and other law enforcement personnel. Same common sense as most everybody other than hard core gun nuts has. Why on earth would anybody think it's reasonable to allow guns in bars? The bar owners certainly don't think so.

[Ombudsman]

I'd like to see Mad Roland list a few reasons he's so obsessed with guns. Unless he's making a profit from them someway, I can't imagine why he'd spend this kind of energy on a single topic.

[Roland Deschain]

Largely from many of the same reasons every university system police chief and as far as I can tell every city police chief that commented objected. There's been a lot of "good guys" turn bad with a drink or so and a disagreement.

A very PC answer. However, one would think that for something you so vehemently oppose you could at least list a few reasons. In addition while it might be legal to carry into a bar/restaurant, carrying while consuming alcohol is still a no no.

No need to "list a few reasons." There's nothing unique about my views. It's the same common sense expressed by the chiefs and other law enforcement personnel. Same common sense as most everybody other than hard core gun nuts has. Why on earth would anybody think it's reasonable to allow guns in bars? The bar owners certainly don't think so.

Got it...your official position is "everyone else is against it so I am too"

[O Really]

Got it...your official position is "everyone else is against it so I am too"

I suppose you could put it that way, although it's not very accurate. You could also say "everyone else" simply recognizes the obvious. Tell you what - go find some bar owners who think it's a good idea to have a law allowing guns in their bars. Then go find some college students who have been lobbying their administration to allow guns on campus. Then we'll talk.

[Roland Deschain]

Got it...your official position is "everyone else is against it so I am too"

I suppose you could put it that way, although it's not very accurate. You could also say "everyone else" simply recognizes the obvious. Tell you what - go find some bar owners who think it's a good idea to have a law allowing guns in their bars. Then go find some college students who have been lobbying their administration to allow guns on campus. Then we'll talk.

Let's talk....my family owns a bar and fully supports it.
http://www.examiner.com/article/conn-co ... -on-campus

Central Connecticut State University student Sara Adler and University of Connecticut student Philip Axelrod are spearheading protests to lobby for the right to carry handguns at college.

http://www.securityinfowatch.com/press_ ... ege-campus

A student group will try to convince the University of Colorado regents this week to loosen the school's gun-control rules and allow those with handgun permits to pack heat on campus.

Now do you really want to talk or will you deflect and say that my links are not valid because they are not in NC???

[Roland Deschain]

[O Really]

Those examples are OK. I'm not surprised you could come up with somebody. It did look like the "cons" in the article outweighed the "pros" though. So - bar owner, why do you want people bringing guns into your bar?

[Roland Deschain]

No matter how badly you want to believe otherwise, CCP holders are the "good guys". They have undergone extensive checks and rechecks just to get the permit. You apparently missed the FACT I posted earlier that even though one can now carry into a bar, carrying and drinking is still prohibited. It is also my opinion that the God given right to defend one's own well being can not be legislated or dictated and can not be subject to application in only select locations. Back a cougar into a corner, or get between a sow bear and her cubs and see what happens. The right to defend one's life or family's lives is not open for discussion it is part of the natural order. With that in mind, knowing what is required to get a CCP, knowing the type of person that will have a CCP, and knowing the rules regarding keeping that CCP and ownership rights period I have no problem allowing guns into our establishment.

Now do you want to give me your reason for opposing these changes or are you going to stick with the "they don't like it so I don't too" story?

[O Really]

Now do you want to give me your reason for opposing these changes or are you going to stick with the "they don't like it so I don't too" story?

Some CCP holders are "good guys." I am, and I suppose you are. But not all are. Anyway, that doesn't matter, because a lot of "good guys" get into arguments that get out of hand, for example. I'd also say that if you're worried about having to protect yourself or your companion in the bars you go to, maybe you need to go to a better class of bars.

But here's the thing. Guns have been prohibited in bars in most places for years - even going back to the 1800's. That is the norm. Most people support that. If someone wants to change it, they need to set forth a compelling reason for doing so. Thus far, nobody has.

[Roland Deschain]

Now do you want to give me your reason for opposing these changes or are you going to stick with the "they don't like it so I don't too" story?

Some CCP holders are "good guys." I am, and I suppose you are. But not all are. Anyway, that doesn't matter, because a lot of "good guys" get into arguments that get out of hand, for example. I'd also say that if you're worried about having to protect yourself or your companion in the bars you go to, maybe you need to go to a better class of bars.

But here's the thing. Guns have been prohibited in bars in most places for years - even going back to the 1800's. That is the norm. Most people support that. If someone wants to change it, they need to set forth a compelling reason for doing so. Thus far, nobody has.

Who said anything about me going in bars..or carrying if I did? Once again your effort at snark only proves you make large ASSumptions. I simply stated that as part owner in a bar it is not up to me or the rest of the family to dictate to anyone when or where they can defend themselves. I think you might want to reconsider that statement about guns being prohibited in bars as far back as the 1800's...that or do a little research into little things called the "wild west", "saloons", and armed cowboys. Up until a few years ago pantywaist cowards had been able to keep concealed carry banned but it eventually passed. Seems I remember hearing statement like "welcome back to Dodge City" when it did.....so tell me just how many CCP self defense shootings have been recorded in NC since passage? What was the "compelling argument" for that? Better yet, I gave yo the only argument that is needed...the right to defend one's life or family's lives is not "allowed"...it is given by God and is part of the natural order of all things.

[O Really]

"given by God..." seriously? That's your argument? OK, you win. What-everr.

[Ombudsman]

Better yet, I gave yo the only argument that is needed...the right to defend one's life or family's lives is not "allowed"...it is given by God and is part of the natural order of all things.

Can you name one person who has claimed you don't have the right to defend yourself or your family? Or are you being intentionally dishonest?

[O Really]

From a practical standpoint, I don't think there are going to be a lot of bars allowing guns. But let's say somebody did. Would they make any effort to find out who has a gun and who doesn't? And if not, how would they know that everyone carrying a gun actually had a permit? If they did decide to allow guns and also to check at the door to see who is carrying, would the gun people find that acceptable? Probably not. So (1) if they don't know who's carrying, they don't have any way of knowing anybody is legal or not; (2) if they check at the door, they'll piss off the gun-carrying clientele they're trying to attract, as well as the gun-carrying people they turn away because of no permit. Doesn't look like a good business strategy to me.

[Mr.B]

"I'd like to see Mad Roland list a few reasons he's so obsessed with guns. Unless he's making a profit from them someway, I can't imagine why he'd spend this kind of energy on a single topic."

"Who said anything about me going in bars...or carrying if I did?"

This entire thread is a hoot. Going back to what I've said many times about calling oneself a Christian and actually being Christian, I have to say that those who vehemently oppose anyone's "right" to carry guns in bars or to legally carry guns at all, are actually afraid of their own kind!

Hell-raisers, drunks, thieves, dopers, the lawless, the anti-God, etc., are the ones most likely to commit a crime while carrying a weapon, and the majority of those are ones with liberal/ultra-liberal and atheistic views/opinions.....or just downright lack of concern for human life.

The Christian's "right to carry" is to protect themselves, their families, and homes from the likes of the aforementioned, so I don't believe they have to worry about whether or not it's legal to carry a gun into a bar.

[bannination]

"I'd like to see Mad Roland list a few reasons he's so obsessed with guns. Unless he's making a profit from them someway, I can't imagine why he'd spend this kind of energy on a single topic."

"Who said anything about me going in bars...or carrying if I did?"

This entire thread is a hoot. Going back to what I've said many times about calling oneself a Christian and actually being Christian, I have to say that those who vehemently oppose anyone's "right" to carry guns in bars or to legally carry guns at all, are actually afraid of their own kind!

Hell-raisers, drunks, thieves, dopers, the lawless, the anti-God, etc., are the ones most likely to commit a crime while carrying a weapon, and the majority of those are ones with liberal/ultra-liberal and atheistic views/opinions.....or just downright lack of concern for human life.

The Christian's "right to carry" is to protect themselves, their families, and homes from the likes of the aforementioned, so I don't believe they have to worry about whether or not it's legal to carry a gun into a bar.

Sorry Mr. B, most of the prison population along with a good percentage of the everyday population committing crimes are the religious folk. There are very very few atheists in prison. The more secular a nation is in general the lower rates of crime, poverty, disease, etc. Atheists even have lower rates of divorce than their religious counterparts. The bible teaches a lack of concern for human life, have you read it?

The stats don't lie, but you do. (Or your ignorant, but as much as we've discussed this, I'm sticking with with a lie in this case.)

http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/ath ... ligious-do
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistfami ... ivorce.htm


Identified faith or lack there of in prison populations: (1997)

Response Number %
---------------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------


I realize all this comes down in your head as "YOUR" definition and not "THE" definition. That's cognitive dissonance for ya.

In 1987, Republican presidential candidate George H. W. Bush was asked by Robert Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, if he recognized the "equal citizenship and patriotism" of atheists in America. Bush responded: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." His answer has become iconic in expression of American, religious, and Christian bigotry towards atheists.

[O Really]

Irresponsible cops? Or unintended consequence of standing ones ground? We report; you decide...
http://now.msn.com/jerry-waller-texas-m ... r-lighting

[Mr.B]

"The stats don't lie, but you do. (Or your (sic) ignorant, but as much as we've discussed this, I'm sticking with with a lie in this case.)"

"I realize all this comes down in your head as "YOUR" definition and not "THE" definition. That's cognitive dissonance for ya."

I'm certain those figures have changed dramatically in the last 16 years.

I realize that all those denominations you've listed are not all Christian denominations....when I said "Going back to what I've said many times about calling oneself a Christian and actually being Christian"....(which obviously you failed to grasp the meaning of); perhaps I should have said "those who actually
adhere to their religious beliefs and principles, and those who make an outward appearance to be of a Godly nature, are two different things"......
Is that easier to comprehend?