Not really. Let's paraphrase: All "real" Christians are good people, but not all good people are Christians. "Real" Christians are not perfect, and sometimes slip up. A direct comparison of action or behaviour is not sufficient to distinguish the "real" Christian from anyone else. Thus it remains a matter of self-proclamation and personal definition, at least on Earth, until later when God sorts them out.
If that's comprehensible, you've a smarter man than I.
Meanwhile, Mr.B, do you think it would be a better country if everyone went around armed to the teeth?
Mr.B wrote:
I'm certain those figures have changed dramatically in the last 16 years.
I realize that all those denominations you've listed are not all Christian denominations....when I said "Going back to what I've said many times about calling oneself a Christian and actually being Christian"....(which obviously you failed to grasp the meaning of); perhaps I should have said "those who actually adhere to their religious beliefs and principles, and those who make an outward appearance to be of a Godly nature, are two different things"......
Is that easier to comprehend?
You don't believe your own logic. For example, let's say that those very few atheists that did something bad, weren't really atheists. Now from what you wrote it's clear you didn't take that into consideration. You have a double standard - and cognitive dissonance.
We could say the same for any religion also; Muslims that do bad things weren't true Muslims. Blah blah blah.
"In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies."
[...]
"There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms (Aral and Holmes; Beeghley, Doyle, 2002)."
bannination wrote:"The stats don't lie, but you do. (Or your (sic) ignorant, but as much as we've discussed this, I'm sticking with with a lie in this case.)"
"I realize all this comes down in your head as "YOUR" definition and not "THE" definition. That's cognitive dissonance for ya."
I'm certain those figures have changed dramatically in the last 16 years.
I realize that all those denominations you've listed are not all Christian denominations....when I said "Going back to what I've said many times about calling oneself a Christian and actually being Christian"....(which obviously you failed to grasp the meaning of); perhaps I should have said "those who actually adhere to their religious beliefs and principles, and those who make an outward appearance to be of a Godly nature, are two different things"......
Is that easier to comprehend?
What you fail to grasp is the arrogance you exhibit when you pretend to know who is a Christian and who isn't.
That might work over time, if you figure that ultimately the real person will emerge (and assuming they don't change through salvation), but in the short term, there are a lot of lemons indistinguishable from oranges.
Not that it's about guns, Mr.B, but in your opinion, do you think "real" Christians can be found in any nominally Christian denomination or sect, or are they confined to one particular denomination? And if it is only one, is everyone in that denomination "real"? (Not a snarky question)
O Really wrote:"Not that it's about guns, Mr.B, but in your opinion, do you think "real" Christians can be found in any nominally Christian denomination or sect, or are they confined to one particular denomination? And if it is only one, is everyone in that denomination "real"? (Not a snarky question)"
Your question didn't come across as snark....There are still Godly people who adhere to Godly principles, regardless of their religious affiliation.
Their beliefs are real; they abhor what this world is turning into, especially when atrocities are committed in the "name of God".
Bannination wrote:"We could say the same for any religion also; Muslims that do bad things weren't true Muslims. Blah blah blah."
Correct.....Past and present atrocities committed against other races, women, religions, etc., in the name of God, Allah, or even your Flying Spaghetti Monster is evidence enough that those who were/are involved in their commission are liars and evil, regardless who or what they say they are.
Blah blah blah.
O Really wrote:"given by God..." seriously? That's your argument? OK, you win. What-everr.
You disagree? Please share with us how my statement is not true, when all things in nature will vehemently defend themselves or their young.
Dumb ass, no one is saying you can't defend yourself. It's the method by which you are allowed to arm yourself in that defense, that is the question. Surely you're smart enough to realize this. Your claim was that it was a god given right to own firearms. That of course is based in superstitious wishful thinking.
Ombudsman wrote:"What you fail to grasp is the arrogance you exhibit when you pretend to know who is a Christian and who isn't."
Matthew 7.....
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
We could spend all day picking and choosing parts out of context as you like to do. But you do not have the authority to tell someone else they are not a true Christian. Thinking you do makes you extremely arrogant, a quality Jesus was not fond of.
Mr.B wrote:
Correct.....Past and present atrocities committed against other races, women, religions, etc., in the name of God, Allah, or even your Flying Spaghetti Monster is evidence enough that those who were/are involved in their commission are liars and evil, regardless who or what they say they are.
Blah blah blah.
So you're not a big fan of Moses huh? Me either. (God and Allah are not two separate entities by the way.)
Does anybody wonder whether Jesus would have a gun? You know, sort of like Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction.....reciting verses from Ezekial before opening fire? But, then again, why would Jesus need a gun? It's quite a conundrum.
neoplacebo wrote:Does anybody wonder whether Jesus would have a gun? You know, sort of like Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction.....reciting verses from Ezekial before opening fire? But, then again, why would Jesus need a gun? It's quite a conundrum.
Maybe. He did say, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword."
Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Gotta kill those non-christians with something! Amirite?
Nope. A little basic knowledge of Old Testament law covenant juxtaposed against New Testament covenant of grace would serve you well in your futile attempts to make a mockery of The Bible.
Ombudsman wrote:"We could spend all day picking and choosing parts out of context as you like to do. But you do not have the authority to tell someone else they are not a true Christian. Thinking you do makes you extremely arrogant, a quality Jesus was not fond of." I don't have to, nor ever have told anyone their status as Christian. I have however, tangled with a former BRN member a few years back (Maddawg) over WWJD remarks that were contrary, I felt, to Biblical teachings.
You're correct though, I do not have the authority or right to judge anyone else; their own actions speak louder than words. (Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.) They're responsible for theirs, I'm responsible for mine.
So you're not a big fan of Moses huh? Me either. (God and Allah are not two separate entities by the way.) Who am I (or you) to judge Mose's actions? Besides that's ancient history. Speaking of picking and choosing.......
God, Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Adonai, El Elohim....just different languages. Flying Spaghetti Monster now, that's a whole new ballgame.
Mr.B wrote:
Who am I (or you) to judge Mose's actions?
A fellow human who has no respect for tyrants and murders.
Besides that's ancient history. Speaking of picking and choosing.......
I agree with you that the Bible is ancient history, or most often, ancient fiction. So why spend so much time obsessing over it? Or more accurately, obsessing over the parts you like and ignoring the rest.
Nope. A little basic knowledge of Old Testament law covenant juxtaposed against New Testament covenant of grace would serve you well in your futile attempts to make a mockery of The Bible.
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)
Yep, so futile. Don't bother with your excuses for this verse. The bible has a million contradictions, I'm sure you'll find one.
Note that even Christians don't believe what you're saying. The bible was the major reason for the burning of witches. Those were Christians that actually tried to follow it. What do you expect from a book that taught the sun revolved around the earth.
Mr.B wrote:
Who am I (or you) to judge Mose's actions?
A fellow human who has no respect for tyrants and murders.
Besides that's ancient history. Speaking of picking and choosing.......
I agree with you that the Bible is ancient history, or most often, ancient fiction. So why spend so much time obsessing over it? Or more accurately, obsessing over the parts you like and ignoring the rest.
That exactly why people can't do any serious historical research using the bible, because the history it records is flat out wrong or just made up.
