Big Brother is Watching You

[O Really]

Impressive list of eveel. And if all those events had the same causes,

:?: You asked somebody to, "trot out the parade of horribles of those falsely accused of something or misuse of power," and that's what I did. Why are you trying to redefine the terms of your own challenge now?

and if those causes were broadbased government repressive malfeasance,

They are examples of "broadbased government repressive malfeasance". You said nothing about "causes" (excuses) when you asked.

you might be frightening.

I grant that there is little reason for a comfortable lawyer that represent employers to be frightened. A younger or more political you might be.

But for purposes of getting me to join you at the baricades, you can't count anything that was illegal when it occurred; you can't count anything that was legal when it occurred just because you disagree with the law allowing it;

Sure I can, according to your original parameters. Plus, the fact that so much of the formerly illegal has now been made legal by Patriot, etc. doesn't make it any less a "misuse of power."

and you can't count anything that was long ago recognized as wrong, illegal or abusive and has subsequently been fixed to reduce the likelihood of re-occurrence. J. Edgar has left the building.

On what planet does enhanced snooping powers given to the same national security state that spawned the list you asked for equal a reduced likelihood of "wrong" and "abusive'? You can't count your wishful thinking and blind trust in Obama.

You also probably shouldn't attribute to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence.

Which of my examples do you feel were innocent incompetence rather than malice?

Would you trust, say, the NC Leg. and Gov. with these powers? Given the way the political pendulum swings is it hard to imagine D.C. one day being similar to it?

olor=#BF0000]Would you trust, say, the NC Leg. and Gov. with these powers? Given the way the political pendulum swings is it hard to imagine D.C. one day being similar to it?[/color][/quote]
Good points all. And I didn't intentionally change the question parameters, I just clarified the factors important to my view. I'll try to condense. Undoubtedly, there have historically been people who abused the powers they had, who did (and do) illegal things, and who do things many citizens oppose. But this whole thread is titled "Big Brother is Watching You" and went from wneglia's IRS article to things largely related to the NSA phone records disclosures, etc. The fundamental approach of those most up in the air about that (including my friends in ACLU) is that "the government" is intentionally and maliciously out to get regular citizens and do something bad to them, or turn them into zombie slaves or something. I've never looked at it that way - even from the former "young activist." I considered Nixon the person (along with his henchmen) to be evil, but not the government as a whole. Exorcise him and move on. I don't think that most people with political power (elected or appointed) intentionally set out to harm the US, although some do. J. Edgar has been long gone for about 40 years, and I think the FBI has done more good than evil in that time. I think the government of the US and the Constitutional basis of it is stronger than any given President or bureaucrat.

Therefore, I'm quite happy to go to the barricades to get the current crop of scumbags out of Raleigh,and to try to get PATRIOT at least improved since they're never going to either repeal it or find it unconstitutional in toto. I'll work against Citizens United, and try to make an impact on gun legislation. And when a J. Edgar or Nixon is outed, I'll volunteer to tie their noose. But I don't find the government in general, nor the NSA, nor the IRS to be an actual enemy of the citizenry.

[O Really]

I've never posted about "government in general" in this context, just the national security state and its long and thoroughly consistent track record of abuses authorized at the highest levels and now by law such as PATRIOT.

Maybe not you personally, but that's the obvious underlying of a lot of the objections to NSA, et. al. For every one like you who actually understands the issues and has a focus, there are a hundred who are just irrationally afraid of black helicopters and jackboots at their door.

[O Really]

I may have mentioned, in full disclosure, that my job in the Air Force was with the unit that has been named Security Service, Electronic Security Command, Air Force Intelligence Command, Air Intelligence Agency, and is currently called the Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Agency - all of whom work for NSA. Because there were a lot of starving lawyers when I got out of school, I used that experience to get a job with NSA at Ft. Meade, staying there for a couple of years. Yes, that was a long time ago, and no, we didn't have all the tech that NSA has now (although what we did have was good for the time), but those of us who worked there did a lot of good. It's certainly possible that somewhere along the line the focus of the agency has gotten away from being the "silent warriors" and become the O'Kremlin KGB, but I'd like to see a bit more evidence before tossing them under the bus.

[Ombudsman]

Unjustified Hysteria over the NSA surveillance program

During the 2001 assault on the World Trade Center, I was trapped in a train under Manhattan for hours. As news of the collapsing towers, the attack on the Pentagon and the crash in Pennsylvania filtered down to the passengers, the conductor kept telling us this tunnel was the safest place we could be. Meanwhile, the tunnels were being searched for explosives.

I recall thinking, here we are in the commercial capital of the most powerful country on earth, with a zillion-dollar defense budget, and we couldn’t see this coming. That’s what the National Security Agency’s massive data-combing program is supposed to do. See the next thing coming, and stop it.

So hard as I try, I can’t fathom the manic outrage over the idea of a government computer raking through the metadata on Americans’ phone calls and emails. Metadata is about email addresses, numbers called and length of conversation.

The computers don’t look at content — what I say or what is said to me. Where’s the big loss in privacy?...

...First off, the front end, the collection of metadata, is all automated. The computer flags suspicious activity, but a human can’t look further without a FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) warrant. FISA warrants are granted for only two reasons: 1. Foreign espionage. 2. Foreign terrorism.

If that human finds that someone has been emailing a known terrorist to discuss fine points of religion, that person still wouldn’t be a legitimate intelligence target, Schindler says. The conversation has to be about plotting terrorism.

Agencies investigating drug trafficking, cyberattacks and other criminal activity have long complained about being denied access to NSA intelligence data. That’s because their searches are not directly connected to terrorism or foreign spying...

“...But the idea of 10,000 NSA agents looking at our pictures of cats and pornography is pure fantasy,” he remarked.

Schindler has engaged in pointed Twitter exchanges with Glenn Greenwald, the left-wing journalist flogging heated conspiracy theories about the program. Schindler considers Greenwald badly misinformed.

Greenwald routinely hyperventilates against Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats supporting the program, accusing them of “channeling the warped language and mentality of Dick Cheney.” He weirdly punctuates his denunciations with you-heard-it-from-me-first bursts of self-promotion.

Unsurprisingly, the paranoia has attracted allies on the far right...

[neoplacebo]

I tried to get onto blue ridge debates this morning and could not; it was just "hung up" or something. I figured for sure the NSA had shut it down and that all of us were well and truly fucked....I even thought about going out and buying guns but realized it was Sunday. I figure sometime next month the NC state legislature will pass a law requiring the sale of guns on Sunday. ok

[O Really]

Interesting article "Spying on Democracy"
http://www.utne.com/politics/government ... z2biC7QAQM

[O Really]

Thanks for that. Is she one of the 100 out of 101 "who are just irrationally afraid of black helicopters and jackboots at their door"?

She is, indeed. Just because I personally take a different tack doesn't mean I don't recognize there are valid point of consideration from the other side. as also expressed by yourself. I don't actually see it as a total black/white good/bad issue. From my perspective the "other 99" couldn't spell "NSA" if you gave them the first two letters.

[O Really]

Fear the NSA - trust Apple.

http://www.citeworld.com/security/22248 ... TEworld%29

The latest developer preview of iOS 7 includes a feature called Frequent Locations that will show you detailed information about places you've been (including home, school, work, restaurants, parks, and pretty much anything else), including when you arrived and left each place as well as how much time you spent there. The discovery of Frequent Locations, which Apple has confirmed and said is intended as a customer-facing feature, has prompted a mild panic about what Apple or third-parties might be doing with the data that calls to mind the location-gate scandal two years ago."
...

"The perceived risk of these features is that Apple might store all your location data, correlated to your Apple ID, and misuse that data or allow an outside entity like a marketing company or certain government agencies access to that data. That's certainly a concern, particularly after the revelations about the NSA's PRISM program, but Apple seems to be doing its part to prevent misuse of that data."

[O Really]

Custom adverts in your face, tracked from your phone...
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... picks=true

[Ombudsman]

I suspect in the near future robotic mannequins will address you by name as you walk into Macy's and will then direct you to the department you're looking for without you even asking, simply by tracking data from your smart phone and combining it with your purchase history. (At which point Vrede will resemble Gene Hackman in the last scene of The Conversation.)

[rstrong]

I suspect in the near future robotic mannequins will address you by name as you walk into Macy's and will then direct you to the department you're looking for without you even asking, simply by tracking data from your smart phone and combining it with your purchase history.

They've been doing something like this for the better part of a decade.

The clothing they sell has embedded RFID tags for inventory control and anti-shoplifting. I read an article years ago about they were reading those tags when someone walked in the door, and sending the customer information to the salesperson's pocket computer before they talked to the customer.

[Wneglia]

Big Brother Pizza

[rstrong]

“...But the idea of 10,000 NSA agents looking at our pictures of cats and pornography is pure fantasy,” he remarked.

Schindler has engaged in pointed Twitter exchanges with Glenn Greenwald, the left-wing journalist flogging heated conspiracy theories about the program. Schindler considers Greenwald badly misinformed.

Wow. Just wow. That article doesn't just deliberately miss the point; it covers it in a dump-truck load of b*llsh*t to try to hide the point.

No-one is accusing them of looking at cat pictures. But there are far more personal things that they're vacuuming up. They can now build an instant dossier on anyone, on the spot.

It's entirely common to hear of people found wrongly convicted, with the prosecutors having presented information out of context, and withholding information that would damaged their case. One more time: As Cardinal Richelieu said, "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." These folks got a heavily armed response for what was just a couple months ago a perfectly innocuous Google search. Imagine what can be mined from the forum posts, web searches etc. of the average person here. Cardinal Richelieu gets six million lines.

Imagine how this information will be used by the political parties. And make no mistake: It will. Sealed and private criminal and divorce records are constantly dug up and used in political campaigns. The IRS has a long history of both parties using it against their opponants. Washington is notorious for running on politically motivated leaks of confidential information.

If Snowden can do it, nothing stops some red-blooded patriot from "doing the right thing" and helping Michelle Bachmann against some godless left-wing commie Marxist socialist. And don't count on any context to be included. You are looking at the future of American politics. And other countries too - no laws limit what the NSA can collect from outside the US.

For that matter, show me a high-level politician in the US, and I'll show you someone with contacts in other countries, eligible to have their calls recorded. And before you say "not all countries are the same as Iran", consider that the Bush family is close friends with the House of Saud, who run a totalitarian torture state.

the left-wing journalist

Pro-civil rights, therefore left-wing, therefore not credible. Riiiiiiiight.

Of course many on the right ALSO oppose drift-net domestic spying, but this writer obviously suffers from nascarfan88 dementia: Anyone who disagrees with him is obviously a left-wing socialist.

flogging heated conspiracy theories about the program. Schindler considers Greenwald badly misinformed.

Except that Greenwald's "heated conspiracy theories" have consistently been proven true. And Schindler's side - from NSA testimony before Congress to the President's recent speech on the subject - keep being proven false.

[rstrong]

"The perceived risk of these features is that Apple might store all your location data, correlated to your Apple ID, and misuse that data or allow an outside entity like a marketing company or certain government agencies access to that data.

There's a difference between a private company collecting your data, and the government doing it:

Apple won't send three SUVs full of armed police to your house because you were shopping on-line for a pressure cooker. As happens a hundred times a week in the US, including to a family a couple weeks ago. (So much for ordinary Americans being excluded.)

[Ombudsman]

Big Brother Pizza

From good ol' tax dodger Aaron Russo. Another tea party wingnut. Love his not so subtle slam on Canadians by having her say "eh" at the end of her sentences. Is that little clip supposed to be an indictment of capitalism or the government? It seems like he's attacking his own laissez faire belief about business. Nut sure Russo really knows what he believes.

Facts Refute Filmmaker’s Assertions on Income Tax in ‘America

[Ombudsman]

There's a difference between a private company collecting your data, and the government doing it:

Absolutely. There's less over sight. It's easier to hack a corporate computer and there's nothing to prevent them from selling the info to the highest bidder.

[rstrong]

Obama's NSA review will be headed by the intelligence chief who lied to congress about the NSA's domestic surveillance program

[O Really]

"The perceived risk of these features is that Apple might store all your location data, correlated to your Apple ID, and misuse that data or allow an outside entity like a marketing company or certain government agencies access to that data.

There's a difference between a private company collecting your data, and the government doing it:

Apple won't send three SUVs full of armed police to your house because you were shopping on-line for a pressure cooker. As happens a hundred times a week in the US, including to a family a couple weeks ago. (So much for ordinary Americans being excluded.)

Apple might. In this instance the guy's former employer turned him in. Former employee, who had Googled "pressure cooker bomb" on the company's machine, which it had every right to inspect...wouldn't you have questions too?

From the article...
"Suffolk County Criminal Intelligence Detectives received a tip from a Bay Shore based computer company regarding suspicious computer searches conducted by a recently released employee. The former employee’s computer searches took place on this employee’s workplace computer. On that computer, the employee searched the terms “pressure cooker bombs” and “backpacks.”
After interviewing the company representatives, Suffolk County Police Detectives visited the subject’s home to ask about the suspicious internet searches. The incident was investigated by Suffolk County Police Department’s Criminal Intelligence Detectives and was determined to be non-criminal in nature."

[O Really]

http://whitenoise.gizmodo.com/yes-the-f ... -981986667
Here's one of the original articles...FBI at the door (wrong)

"In case we needed more proof that the U.S. government is in fact reading the contents of Americans' online activity, this should do it. That is, unless we refuse to believe it until the FBI makes a personal visit to each of our abodes." (wrong)

Yes, those were among the "99" IMNVHO.

[neoplacebo]

If I weren't so old, I might quit my job and go and join Eustace Conway up there in the Boone area. Word is he's prevailed over the state regarding building codes. I just don't know if i can chase down and kill animals and eat them or not. I always eat them after someone else killed them.