Big Brother is Watching You

[O Really]

NSA has been around for more than 50 years. It's mission hasn't changed much. What has changed is (1) who are "friends" and "enemies", (2) technology and (3) PATRIOT. Before Snowden, long before Snowden, NSA collected and used data, including call records. After Snowden, of Moscow, formerly of Hong Kong, everybody is paranoid over "Big Brother." Reminds me of the people who have happily and safely gone grocery shopping through the years until they see an "expose" on bacteria on shopping carts and now they are convince they're going to catch the creeping crud with every trip to the grocery. The NSA's work, like the shopping cart bacteria is real, but the importance of the danger is highly exaggerated.

[RonJ]

We don't need a "conspiracy". When the institution of the national security state is set up to enhance itself....

Really? Just how does it "enhance itself" or is that just diarrhea of the mouth?

... and necessarily rewards those that advance that goal...

And that goal would be what?...and what rewards have been given?

and marginalizes or gets rid of those that don't.....

...and that would be who? When did they marginalize someone?

Oh this should be fun!!!

[RonJ]

We don't need a "conspiracy". When the institution of the national security state is set up to enhance itself....

Really? Just how does it "enhance itself" or is that just diarrhea of the mouth?

Funding, influence, self-perpetuation and rationalization - the usual, you vulgar child.

... and necessarily rewards those that advance that goal...

And that goal would be what?...

Ummm, enhancing itself, as I posted.

and what rewards have been given?

Jobs, pay, power, the usual.

and marginalizes or gets rid of those that don't.....

...and that would be who?

Anyone that's not serving the goals of the national security state.

When did they marginalize someone?

Firing, dirty tricks, career stagnation, not hiring in the first place, whatever. That's how all bureaucracies, public or private, work.

Oh this should be fun!!!

It was. Thanks.

the individual players involved are largely interchangeable and inconsequential. We could dump Holder, Obama, Hagel, Alexander, Inglis and a boatload of others and nothing would change unless there was systemic change. That's why the abuses have spanned decades.

Agree or disagree with me, my meaning was not that complex. Are you really that dense or are you just pretending to be?

The difference between you and I are that you speak from opinion and I speak from facts....and nothing you said is more than over generalizations and conjecture. I can give you specific examples to each of your points, both in policy and in practice of where you are wrong. Your opinions are about as 180 degrees from reality as they could possibly get.

[RonJ]

The difference between you and I are that you speak from opinion and I speak from facts....and nothing you said is more than over generalizations and conjecture...

The only citations that have been provided here are mine. All you've done is bloviate.

Facts don't necessarily need citations. Your generalization to me simply means you're not really familiar with the subject.

[RonJ]

NSA has been around for more than 50 years. It's mission hasn't changed much. What has changed is (1) who are "friends" and "enemies", (2) technology and (3) PATRIOT. Before Snowden, long before Snowden, NSA collected and used data, including call records. After Snowden, of Moscow, formerly of Hong Kong, everybody is paranoid over "Big Brother." Reminds me of the people who have happily and safely gone grocery shopping through the years until they see an "expose" on bacteria on shopping carts and now they are convince they're going to catch the creeping crud with every trip to the grocery. The NSA's work, like the shopping cart bacteria is real, but the importance of the danger is highly exaggerated.

Its only exaggerated in the media..organizationally and funding they're more balanced than you think. Terrorists are only a fraction of their focus..there is still lots of evil in the world.

[O Really]

Its only exaggerated in the media..organizationally and funding they're more balanced than you think. Terrorists are only a fraction of their focus..there is still lots of evil in the world.

Not just the media. Lots of non-media people spook over spooks. But many do forget that not everyone seeking to do harm to the US is actually a "terrorist."

[RonJ]

The difference between you and I are that you speak from opinion and I speak from facts....and nothing you said is more than over generalizations and conjecture...

The only citations that have been provided here are mine. All you've done is bloviate.

Facts don't necessarily need citations. Your generalization to me simply means you're not really familiar with the subject.

More self-impressed puffery, no facts at all presented.

Come on...just admit it. You have no idea what you're talking about. The only clue you have is what your idols over on MSNBC tell you...otherwise, you'd be in the dark.

[Boatrocker]

. . . Come on...just admit it. You have no idea what you're talking about. The only clue you have is what your idols over on MSNBC tell you...otherwise, you'd be in the dark.

And CIRDS (Chronic Irony Recognition Deficiency Syndrome) rears its ugly head again. Classic case of projection.

[RonJ]

More self-impressed puffery, no facts at all presented.

Come on...just admit it. You have no idea what you're talking about. The only clue you have is what your idols over on MSNBC tell you...otherwise, you'd be in the dark.

Still no facts of any sort presented and no attempt, even a lame one, to debunk any facts or opinions I've offered, just laughable boasting.

I don't watch MSNBC. You've screwed-up, again.

Okay, so its Huffington Post. 0:-?> It doesn't matter..you're still clueless. Which of your nutty remarks would you like me to comment on?

[Boatrocker]

Pick one- and comment with facts.

[bannination]

“Every day, they are learning how brilliant [Snowden] was,” said a former U.S. official with knowledge of the case. “This is why you don’t hire brilliant people for jobs like this. You hire smart people. Brilliant people get you in trouble.”

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news ... ay?src=a0b

Yeah... let the brilliant people be hired out to foreign countries. ///FACEPALM.

How about just don't do bad things that brilliant people know is WRONG.

[RonJ]

“Every day, they are learning how brilliant [Snowden] was,” said a former U.S. official with knowledge of the case. “This is why you don’t hire brilliant people for jobs like this. You hire smart people. Brilliant people get you in trouble.”

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news ... ay?src=a0b

Yeah... let the brilliant people be hired out to foreign countries. ///FACEPALM.

How about just don't do bad things that brilliant people know is WRONG.

He wasn't brilliant, not even close...he was a contractor who squeeked in and the government wouldn't even give him interview. Had he been really brilliant, he wouldn't be a contractor. Given his relatively brief tour, he went in with the intention of gathering incriminating documents. A system administrator isn't going to "trip" over files and then become a conscientious objector. A system administrator is worried about keeping operating systems up and data flowing...not looking at the contents of the data. I'm surprised he found the men's room in the brief time he was there.

[RonJ]

Which of your nutty remarks would you like me to comment on?

Your choice. So far, all you've been doing is claiming victory when you haven't posted anything consequential or thoughtful at all. It's adorable.

Why can't you just pick one instead of wasting a post to say nothing.

[RonJ]

He wasn't brilliant, not even close...

More bloviating devoid of evidence.

he was a contractor who squeeked in and the government wouldn't even give him interview.

Since when are government personnel decisions and brilliance congruous?

Had he been really brilliant, he wouldn't be a contractor.

Huh?

Given his relatively brief tour, he went in with the intention of gathering incriminating documents.

Duh, "brilliant" of you to notice.

A system administrator isn't going to "trip" over files and then become a conscientious objector.

banni did not post that's how it played out. Pay attention.

A system administrator is worried about keeping operating systems up and data flowing...not looking at the contents of the data. I'm surprised he found the men's room in the brief time he was there.

More puffery, more complete absence of facts.

I'm my own source....CISM certified baby. Not only that, I've supervised/hired/fired civil service and contractors. You might say I understand the culture and rules.

[Boatrocker]

. . . I'm my own source....CISM certified baby. Not only that, I've supervised/hired/fired civil service and contractors. You might say I understand the culture and rules.

I might say I'm King of The Moon, too. It would have as much credibility.

[bannination]

. . . I'm my own source....CISM certified baby. Not only that, I've supervised/hired/fired civil service and contractors. You might say I understand the culture and rules.

I might say I'm King of The Moon, too. It would have as much credibility.

After much research I have decided you are the king of the moon. I mean, there wasn't any evidence you weren't king of the moon.

[O Really]

I believe Ron has knowledge of what he speaks, at least in regard to IT/security issues. Why a person as smart as him would be a Republican or say things like "you can't compare the US to other countries" is totally beyond my comprehension.

[neoplacebo]

Maybe that he's been involved in hiring and firing people; I can believe that. He formerly on the BRN forum professed expertise at tracking people. I challenged him about not being able to follow me in a vehicle for more than a couple of miles without me noticing I was being followed. I also noted in my response to him that unless he's placed a device in or on my car, there was no way he could follow me very long without being noticed. His response was some long ago forgotten bullshit. He also formerly professed his certainty that Iraq would be much better off after our war there. I disagreed; his response was more forgotten bullshit. Check out what is and has been happening in Iraq since we left. My conclusion is that what Ron thinks mostly sucks. By the way, I sometimes watch MSNBC and sometimes watch Fox news. I don't parrot either; I only watch in order to get a handle on the pulse and derive my own conclusions. Easy.

[O Really]

:?: :?: :?:

What has he spoken of?
He disputed your own citation from a credible source as to the number of systems administrators, but offered nothing to back up his contention.
He claimed "conspiracy" when no here has been calling it that, a lame strawman.
He's stupidly assessed Snowden's intelligence level without having any expertise to do so, along with other nonsensical invention.
Then, the only other thing he's done is claim that he's won something 6 times, and flubbed his guesses as to my media sources twice.

I get that you have some level of agreement but really, O Really, what exactly do you think RonJ has posted that has enough meat to it to merit any credence at all?

Sure he's opinionated, and some of his opinions may be founded more of ideology than actuality, but ...

"Given his relatively brief tour, he went in with the intention of gathering incriminating documents. A system administrator isn't going to "trip" over files and then become a conscientious objector. A system administrator is worried about keeping operating systems up and data flowing...not looking at the contents of the data..." has the ring of somebody who has some familiarity with the environment of a data collection/management operation.

[O Really]

He may be a geek, I don't know or care, but his pronouncement about "isn't going to 'trip' over files and then become a conscientious objector" when no one suggested that's how it went down shows that his geekiness or lack thereof does not lead to intelligible contributions to the conversation, at least not so far.
.

I know you like "literal" and within that context, no, nobody at least here suggested that Snowden tripped over files. But if you recall, the early story (not necessarily even directly by Snowden) was that he "became aware" of things he believed were wrong or illegal and was unable to live with his complicity. It added to the storyline that he was a crusading hero, a whistleblower of great ethical standards, yada. Turns out he really did set out to steal and disclose data, and sought out the jobs he got in order to do that. (his version).