The Religion Thread

[bannination]

"Being a religious institution of course he can do whatever he wants. He *could* have been less of a dick about it and married them. In the future he could make sure that he only accepts clients based on certain conditions.

If God cared what clothes we wear he'd have birthed us with clothes. I mean you seriously don't think in the past people haven't worn even less?
How about Adam and Eve? Leaves? Naked? It's ridiculous."

In the eyes of the un-churched, I suppose it is ridiculous. Since we weren't "birthed with clothes", why do we wear clothes anyway?
You may recall that Adam and Eve originally were naked....sin made them ashamed to be naked. Inasmuch as mankind now wears clothes to hide their nakedness, the sin in us now makes mankind want to show off nakedness; not in the innocence manner of Adam and Eve, but in a manner that provokes lust and lasciviousness.

The preacher made the right choice.

I get what you're saying. - I'm just saying when it comes to religion, poof, all logic goes out the window. For example, let's say the guy has shaved his facial hair....or had a tattoo that's a BIG no no.... but I'm sure that would have been fine.

[O Really]

I still say for reasons having nothing to do with anybody's religion or lack thereof, that the minister was a jerk. He agreed to conduct a ceremony for the couple (apparently without any pre-conditions as to dress), and they relied on that agreement in making arrangements and spending money. (I don't know what all they did, but apparently it would have been more than just getting up and driving over to the church). The minister, knowing they had done this, and knowing it was their wedding day, chose to renege on his agreement, causing (real, not just legalese) emotional distress. Again, he wouldn't have had to expect that someone would show up in a dress he didn't like. If he cared about dress, he could have said, "here's a list of rules and expectations for weddings in this facility: No rap bands, no illegal substances, no noisemakers, but applause following the ceremony is OK, and I get to approve the attire of the wedding party."

[O Really]

It's fun to yammer in the theoretical, but if anybody is actually interested in the story itself, you might consider the possibility it's not quite real. The story seems only to be found in cut n pastes or excerpts of the original content - no follow up, no interviews, no nothing - and that church seems to exist only in the story. No reference to it as an entity. Of course, a church in a converted shoe store might not have much of a public footprint, but you'd think it would have a phone, or the minister would be findable in something other than just the wedding refusal story. Probably mostly real, but just sayin'...

[neoplacebo]

I'm pretty sure that "Thou shalt not, under any circumstances, establish, threat to establish, or even think of establishing a church in a converted shoe store" was the elusive lost 11th commandment. Not sure.

[Mr.B]

"It's fun to yammer in the theoretical, but if anybody is actually interested in the story itself, you might consider the possibility it's not quite real. The story seems only to be found in cut n pastes or excerpts of the original content - no follow up, no interviews, no nothing - and that church seems to exist only in the story. No reference to it as an entity. Of course, a church in a converted shoe store might not have much of a public footprint, but you'd think it would have a phone, or the minister would be findable in something other than just the wedding refusal story. Probably mostly real, but just sayin'..."
I too, considered the story a hoax, but given the source, I didn't bother to look further than the links provided in Banni's post. Also, I doubt the pastor used the terminology "too sexy", rather he probably said "inappropriate", and the writer used his own wording to sensationalize the story.

"I still say for reasons having nothing to do with anybody's religion or lack thereof, that the minister was a jerk. He agreed to conduct a ceremony for the couple (apparently without any pre-conditions as to dress), and they relied on that agreement in making arrangements and spending money.
(I don't know what all they did, but apparently it would have been more than just getting up and driving over to the church). The minister, knowing they had done this, and knowing it was their wedding day, chose to renege on his agreement, causing (real, not just legalese) emotional distress. Again, he wouldn't have had to expect that someone would show up in a dress he didn't like. If he cared about dress, he could have said, "here's a list of rules and expectations for weddings in this facility: No rap bands, no illegal substances, no noisemakers, but applause following the ceremony is OK, and I get to approve the attire of the wedding party."

I sure that the pastor, never in his wildest dreams, would have thought that someone would show up dressed like a streetwalker expecting him to marry them either; therefore he probably thought they would have more scruples than that and he wouldn't have to go through a dress code spiel.

The story doesn't say whether the minister knew the couple or not. Most pastors I know will only marry who they know, or are church members;
and many will have a counseling with the couple as a condition to marrying them.

The story makes it appear he was in it for the money and reneged at the last moment. If the story is true, I fault the pastor for a couple of reasons....
Firstly, he should have stated his position when he first saw the dress. "The mother thought he was joking" when he asked about the dress.
Secondly, he should have confronted the bride-to-be himself rather than send someone else to deliver the message that he would not perform the ceremony.

With the way the story was written, it's easy to see why the un-churched would get their drawers in a wad over it....but if it did really happen,
despite the handling of the situation, I still applaud the pastor.

[Mr.B]

"I get what you're saying. - I'm just saying when it comes to religion, poof, all logic goes out the window. For example, let's say the guy has shaved his facial hair....or had a tattoo that's a BIG no no.... but I'm sure that would have been fine."

It depends on how you define logic and how Christians define logic. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

As far as shaving his beard, the story didn't state what the groom's beliefs were...maybe she even had a beard and tattoos; she refused to send a photo.

[bannination]

"I get what you're saying. - I'm just saying when it comes to religion, poof, all logic goes out the window. For example, let's say the guy has shaved his facial hair....or had a tattoo that's a BIG no no.... but I'm sure that would have been fine."

It depends on how you define logic and how Christians define logic. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

As far as shaving his beard, the story didn't state what the groom's beliefs were...maybe she even had a beard and tattoos; she refused to send a photo.

Why would you applaud the pastor for doing something that Jesus wouldn't have ever done? He embraced whores and cast outs from society (of which she is neither)!

Christians are nothing like Jesus.

All religious things aside, the pastor is a DICK of a human being.

[Mr.B]

"Christians are nothing like Jesus."
Neither are atheists.
I've never met a Christian who claimed to be perfect; have you?
"All religious things aside, the pastor is a DICK of a human being."
So are most atheists.

[O Really]

Here's a thought - the bride apparently (assuming all this is real) did not provide a real pic, only the model in the dress. She did say she made some "alterations" to better fit her "vision." Wonder what the actual bride looked like? Maybe the minister just didn't like fat chicks in skimpy dresses. Or maybe he was afraid of a "Little Mermaid" reaction looking at all the bare skin.

[bannination]

Here's a thought - the bride apparently (assuming all this is real) did not provide a real pic, only the model in the dress. She did say she made some "alterations" to better fit her "vision." Wonder what the actual bride looked like? Maybe the minister just didn't like fat chicks in skimpy dresses. Or maybe he was afraid of a "Little Mermaid" reaction looking at all the bare skin.

Ain't no telling if it's true or not, but the original story did come from a Christian website.

[bannination]

"Christians are nothing like Jesus."
Neither are atheists.
I've never met a Christian who claimed to be perfect; have you?
"All religious things aside, the pastor is a DICK of a human being."
So are most atheists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZ ... sm0o2IuLXq

[Mr.B]

"The story makes it appear he was in it for the money and reneged at the last moment. If the story is true, I fault the pastor for a couple of reasons....
Firstly, he should have stated his position when he first saw the dress. "The mother thought he was joking" when he asked about the dress.
Secondly, he should have confronted the bride-to-be himself rather than send someone else to deliver the message that he would not perform the ceremony."

OK, my bad....I goofed. Only one fault with the pastor; that being the first point.

"Around 2:30pm the pastor asked a leader of the church to ask the bride and the family about the other part of her dress. The bride informed the leader ‘this is it’. The leader reported the news to the pastor and then the pastor informed personally the bride and groom at separate times he could not perform the wedding with the bride in her selected dress. The pastor told the bride she would have to cover up her breast area and find a way to add length to the dress. The bride informed the pastor there is no way to accomplish this with so short of a notice and she has to wear her dress. Then the pastor informed her he would not be able to perform the ceremony then walked back to his office."

"I don’t believe women should come to church—even unsaved women looking for a pastor to perform a wedding ceremony—scantily clad. In my first article, some criticized me for not calling men to the same standard. I absolutely do. I don’t want to see men’s boxer shorts, bulging biceps and tight pants any more than I want to see a woman’s cleavage."

"Paul said not to be conformed to this world (Rom. 12:2), but when we dress like lingerie models in church—or anywhere else—we’ve given the spirit of the world too much influence. If God doesn't care what we wear, Scripture wouldn’t tell us to adorn ourselves in modest apparel, in clothing that is proper for women professing godliness." (1 Tim. 2:9-10). Jennifer LeClaire - Watchman on The Wall

[Mr.B]

"Mr.B, if I invite you to my birthday party it might be okay if you wear that dress, but I'd kinda like to know about it ahead of time.
Some of my friends and family don't have the tolerance, sense of humor and strong stomach that I do."

I have a sense of humor, but believe me, I shore 'nuff ain't got the tolerance or strong stomach to show up in a dress; like that one or a gunny-sack!

Good one Vrede........

[Mr.B]

"My only issue was with him preventing another minister from doing it."

I find no fault there. The ceremony would still have been performed in the church he was pastoring. If his convictions were strong enough to feel that his marrying them would be inappropriate, he was right in not allowing his church to be used. That would defeat the purpose of his refusal.

Let's use another example. Let's say he agreed to marry a couple and they showed up in pagan garb. Although his church was a converted shoe store and didn't have the appearance of a typical as-we-know-it church, it was still a place of worship dedicated to serving the Lord. Seeing their clothes, he refuses to carry out the ceremony, but another minister asks to consummate the ceremony. Do you really think the pastor would be wrong in refusing to allow that service to be carried out?

If you were throwing a party at your home and someone brought some pictures and asked you to show them around, and you found them objectionable,
but someone else volunteered to show them, would you allow it?

[O Really]

The difference in yours and my perspective, Mr.B, is that you think that the ministers convictions or beliefs allow him to renege on a promise that the other side of the agreement had relied on. I don't. I think he should have held his nose and upheld the agreement he made, which was to conduct a legally binding ceremony for that couple in a certain place at a certain time. "Pagan garb", whatever that might be, wouldn't matter unless he also had told them the rules only allow believers or members to be married there. Apparently that was not the case, so for all I know they were Pagans, but that wasn't what he reneged over. He reneged because he didn't like the dress. (Assuming the story to be real, and I still have some doubts. It's too entertaining not to have been picked up by some local Houston area paper at least, with some follow up. Don't you want to know where they ended up getting married?)

[Boatrocker]

The pastor didn't judge her; he simply refused to go against his standards to perform a "bond of HOLY matrimony" i.e. holy in the sight of God.
Kudos to the pastor.

BTW....how do you kiss the bride when she's wearing a burka?

A fucking dress has nothing to do with any "holy" shit. Fuck this asshole fundicongelical bible thumper dickhead. That said, someone shoulda known this preacher was a flaming evangelical assmunch, and coulda saved everyone but the fucktard preacher some time & trouble.

[O Really]

It isnt like she showed up with a goat to be sacrificed at the alter. Or asked for something illegal like passing tokes for communion. We're talking about simple standards of attire. Yes, if attire was important to him, he should have addressed it beforehand.

[Mr.B]

(trash, garbage, filth, lack of common decency, intelligence, etc......)

Such a filthy mouth...I'm amazed you can eat with it. Your lack of respect for others prove you have no respect for yourself.

I would have bet a week's pay you were older than 17....... Grow up.

[Mr.B]

"Say they're of women in skimpy clothes, the feminists griping while the lesbians are wanting to see them will be interesting to watch. Let me get you a beer and we'll grab ringside seats."

Many years ago I would have been pounding on your door before you finished typing this invite......

I'm finished commenting here....the Ugly Sisters have a close relative in our midst. He lives in a boat down on the sewage treatment pond.

[Boatrocker]

It isnt like she showed up with a goat to be sacrificed at the alter. Or asked for something illegal like passing tokes for communion. We're talking about simple standards of attire. Yes, if attire was important to him, he should have addressed it beforehand.

Bet the dickhead would've been okay with a snake to pass around.
My son & his fee-awn-say we're married two weeks ago in a pretty little public park in Greenville, by a JP. Simple, cozy and every bit as legal as some tackyass superstitious rite performed by a smug asshole shaman.
Stay away from churches & preachers; if you're really lookin for God, they just get in the way anyhow.