Gun Legislation

[Cannonpointer]

Vrede said: "O Really and I both instantly saw it. "

Ooh, an appeal to popularity. Stunning. Almost as good as a quote backing u your inane assertion.

I will remember that "I'm not the ONLY one to make that mistake" is some sort of magic eraser in your world.

[Cannonpointer]

Vrede wrote:

"We only have the word of the proven liar, GZ, for that."

See, this is where you run into trouble, son. The states own forensic investigators were easily able to determine, based on the timeline established by the state's star witness, that Trayvon made it home, then snaked around Zimmerman to position himself between Zimmerman and his vehicle.

Your version of events is prejudiced, because you are compensating for the racism that is clearly evident in your low expectations of a black teenager. You EXPECT violence from him - you have equated annoying him with smart-mouthing a gang of bikers. Your fear of a black planet is all up in this thread, son.

As to the definition of ambush, I did not read past example 1, since it fit. He surprised Zimmerman, according to forensics experts. He cut him off from his retreat and then attacked him at his leisure. The fact that the sport fighter initiated some banter before initiating an assault does not change the meaning of the word ambush.

Zimmerman was, according to forensics and testimony, encircled and cut off from retreat. You are correct that we only have Zimm's word for who threw the first punch. But common sense, as demonstrated by original investigators, tells us that the preponderant probability was that the ambusher threw the first punch - it fits with his other movements, encircling and cutting off.

If Trayvon had only wanted to TALK, he would have stood his ground in his own front yard. The encircling and cutting off of his antagonist was a pretty clear indicator of intent, and jibes perfectly with Zimmerman's account. That's why he was not originally charged, before the political show trial.

[Cannonpointer]

Vrede puled:

"You're still running away from both of our elaborations."

I'm not running. I challenged you to quote me saying what you claimed, and you failed. he has not even responded, let alone elaborated. You keep trying, with each new post, to drag him in as a co-signer, star witness, whatever.

You made a claim. I challenged. You claimed someone else made the same mistake, so it's okay.

Whatever, dude.

[O Really]

O Really said, of the trayvon photo,

"Maybe a bit dated,"

You have demonstrated mastery of understatement. Well done.

Probably about 9 months old. You can find a pic of him 9 days before he was killed pretty easily. Not all that much different. Let's look at it like this: if the guy Zimmerman saw was a young kid, he should have left him alone. If the guy Zimmerman saw was a gang-look badass, he should have left him alone. Calling the cops was fine, no matter if the guy he saw looked suspiciously like Mother Teresa.

[Cannonpointer]

In your permissive world, Zimmerman should have left a suspicious character wandering around the subdivision. In my less permissive world, adults have a right to see what kids are up to without expecting to be ambushed and assaulted.

The kid made it home. If all he wanted to do was "talk," the best place to do so was in his own yard. Instead, he circled around and positioned himself between the older man and his vehicle. It was only AFTER Zimm had broken off pursuit, as evidenced by the 911 tapes, that he RE-encountered the youth.

Vrede likes to pretend that activity shows no malice. That;s because Vrede cannot cope with his own racism. He has very low expectations of black males. I have much higher expectations.

On more thing. The photo th press ran shows a kid maybe 5'6" - a child. The corpse was 6 feet tall and a full grown man. 9 months my ass, son. Try three years. He was 14 in that class photo, 17 when he died committing an assault.

[Cannonpointer]

Vrede lied,

"Black = "suspicious" to GZ and Cannonpointer."

Actually, teenager = suspicious - ESPECIALLY a lone teen, out at night, off the side walk, in a high burglary area. IF you can get past your racism, you can easily determine that in virtually ALL mammal species, teenaged males are the most mischief prone demographic (and therefore, the most logical to be suspicious of). Live with it, son. It's biological reality, not racism.

When zoo keepers have badly behaved juvenile male elephants, they import a bull to keep them in line. Works every time.

Also, the jury believed the kid ambushed Zimm. That's why they let him go. Zimm CLAIMS he was ambushed. Your dispute is with someon who was there - not with the person who believes him for logical (not racial) reasons.

Vred went on to lie further:

"You're the one that thinks they should cower from creepy crackers. All this must explain your adoration for GZ, they haven't with you. Grow up and deal with it or stop stalking them."

There's your racism showing. But I think "spic," rather than "cracker," is generally reserved for those of the Hispanic race. Also, I don't "adore" GZ. I think he was stupid. And innocent of murder.

Vrede continued his sad charade, "I see, you're an authority on how best to TALK with creepy stalkers. Please tell us about your vast experience."

Okay. In my experience - nay, VAST experience, - people are more at home, at home. In my VAST experience, sneaking around to encircle someone is not motivated by a desire to chat, you impervious twit. Can I please discourse with your adult persona?

[Cannonpointer]

Lofl. Thanks for that link - I really get a kick out of me!

I have not made it clear that I would cower from a stalker - nor have I EVER agreed with your characterization of Zimm as a stalker. That's just stuff that you made up and believed. You give way too much credence to the voices in your head, son. I make up stories just as fast as anyone, but I am slower to believe them. I actually understand that the story spinning is part of the machinery, and you can't just assume that your "take" is true.

I HAVE said that I, as a teenager, would not have CONSIDERED attacking an adult that confronted me. I would have politely answered any inquiry. And I was a tough kid, a fighter. But I was not a thug. And I am not dead. No one had to kill me to defend himself from me.

[mike]

Any "liberal" claiming to support what GZ did is not a liberal ... at all.

[Cannon Pointer]

Vrede wheezed:

"My opinions may admittedly be wrong,"

There we are. Now, don't you feel better?

Mine may be, as well, son. Neither of us were there. But you have such an enormous charge on this racist angle that you get all emotionally invested in your opinions in the matter.

I often wonder if America doesn't need to have a long conversation about race - maybe led by Cosby and Sharpton, with Ann Coulter as a neutral referee.

[Cannon Pointer]

Any "liberal" claiming to support what GZ did is not a liberal ... at all.

Well, then, since you are the arbiter of all things liberal, I will have to accept my exile.

Wait. ARE you?

Hmmm...

[mike]

Any "liberal" claiming to support what GZ did is not a liberal ... at all.

Well, then, since you are the arbiter of all things liberal, I will have to accept my exile.

Wait. ARE you?

Hmmm...

Maybe ... questioning yourself, heh?
You might want to talk to your court psychologist.

[Cannon Pointer]

Any "liberal" claiming to support what GZ did is not a liberal ... at all.

Well, then, since you are the arbiter of all things liberal, I will have to accept my exile.

Wait. ARE you?

Hmmm...

Maybe ... questioning yourself, heh?
You might want to talk to your court psychologist.

Oh, I can assure you that I have long questioned the appellation "liberal." There are so many progressives using it, and expecting me to think in their truncated and crippled terms. To me, the word is a description. To many (to you, I fear), it is a prescription. Here are our planks. Embrace them. STAMP. Next...

In your world, can any liberal ever use a gun to defend himself? And before you answer yes, just notice that it is then not my position on self defense that caused you to kick me out of the liberal circle, but my conclusion about a particular case (a conclusion which agrees with a jury of all women, giving me the opportunity to see your race card and raise you a misogyny card).

[mike]

...In your world, can any liberal ever use a gun to defend himself? And before you answer yes, just notice that it is then not my position on self defense that caused you to kick me out of the liberal circle, but my conclusion about a particular case (a conclusion which agrees with a jury of all women, giving me the opportunity to see your race card and raise you a misogyny card).

Same lie you've spouted over and over. You just can't help yourself, can you? The jury only ruled that there was not enough evidence to convict under funky, gunhugging FL law, nothing more.

This.
Thanks, Vrede.

[Cannon Pointer]

...In your world, can any liberal ever use a gun to defend himself? And before you answer yes, just notice that it is then not my position on self defense that caused you to kick me out of the liberal circle, but my conclusion about a particular case (a conclusion which agrees with a jury of all women, giving me the opportunity to see your race card and raise you a misogyny card).

Same lie you've spouted over and over. You just can't help yourself, can you? The jury only ruled that there was not enough evidence to convict under funky, gunhugging FL law, nothing more.

Right. Same thing I've been arguing. He argued self defense. The jury let him go on that argument. There was no disagreement about the dead body. There were even pictures of it.

There was no dispute he killed the kid.

He claimed self defense.

The jury believed him - or at least, did not DISbelieve him.

I feel the same. I was not there. He might have been blood thirsty. If he was, Trayvon sure played into his hands, with that...

wait for it...



Ambush maneuver.

[mike]

Ambush maneuver.

No ambush, I kinda admire your back-tracking and coming to your senses.

[Cannonpointer]

Ambush maneuver.

No ambush, I kinda admire your back-tracking and coming to your senses.

Oh, because I added the word "maneuver?"

Okay - whatever floats your boat. I was just trying to make it easier on Vrede.

The kid pulled an ambush. He encircled and blocked the exit of his antagonist - in order, according to Vrede, to "talk."

The "talk" got him killed, by the counter-ambush of his quarry being strapped.

Vrede wants to pretend that Zimm was free to go - that the young man who circled the "creepy-ass cracker" and waited for him did so in order to let him just walk away. And live happily ever after.

I can only IMAGINE if a white teenager wanted to circle and confront a "creepy ass nigger" how Vrede would be championing the poor dead lad.

Like I said before, Vrede doesn't demand dozens of standards. Just two.

[Cannonpointer]

Vrede wheedled,

"fill the hole"

More homophobia.

[Cannonpointer]

...The kid pulled an ambush.

Lie, again. There's no evidence of concealment or subterfuge, necessary elements for "ambush." Or, you really are that stupid.

He encircled and blocked the exit of his antagonist

Lie, again. GZ had a whole subdivision full of exit routes.

- in order, according to Vrede, to "talk."

Lie, again. I haven't said that I know what Trayvon's intention was, just that GZ says it began with talk and stayed that way until he stupidly, stupidly reached into his pocket. In contrast, you have declared over and over that you know that Trayvon's intent was physical attack.

Actions speak louder than words. He was home. He left home, and surreptitiously circled his antagonist. He did not take these extra steps in order to converse. Grownups know an ambush when they see one.

Lie, again, desperate and pathetic. I haven't said that I know what would have happened if GZ didn't stupidly, stupidly reach into his pocket. In contrast, you've foolishly declared all along that you know for a fact what would have happened.

I can only IMAGINE if a white teenager wanted to circle and confront a "creepy ass nigger" how Vrede would be championing the poor dead lad.

Yes, you have quite the imagination, very insightful of you to admit it. I'm not a fan of busybody, creepy ass, self-appointed, lying, cowardly, wannabe cops whatever their color.

LOFL. Yeah, you'd be in here defending the kid that used the N word - because you're all understanding and race neutral like that.

Like I said before, Vrede doesn't demand dozens of standards. Just two.

[Cannonpointer]

A post-racial America starts with you, Vrede.

It looks to me like it's gonna be a while.

[Cannonpointer]

Your wussy ducking of all your proven lies and repeated posting of the same stupidity does make it easier to reply. Thanks.

You poor, poor confused thing. I did not say that there's anything wrong with man-love. That stands in very stark contrast to your posts about gays. Interesting though - why so defensive? Don't be bashful, most of us are tolerant here.

Yes, you are very tolerant Vrede - so tolerant that if a white teenager encircled a "creepy ass nigger," and got himself shot, you would be in here championing his cause and calling the system that let his black killer off on self defense flawed.

You lying sack of cat guts - bwahaha.

You have a double standard and a victim meme that dominates you. You cannot see straight for all that anger. You're willing to jump in Zimm's head and make BOLD declarations about what he was thinking, but when it comes to reading Trayvon's very clear ambush maneuvers, hey, who can say? You're not in the kid's head, after all. Gosh, WHO KNOWS why he encircled the man like prey? Maybe just to chat? Yeah - to chat. That's why he cut off his exit.

Quick - pretend there were hundreds - no, this time make it THOUDSANDS - of alternate routes out of there.