The Religion Thread

[Ombudsman]

"What I was referring to is the long list of things than have magically become not sinful anymore."
Such as homosexuality, divorce, and martial infidelity? Oh wait...I'm thinking like a liberal! Silly me!

Damn you're thick. You really this dumb? She's referring to rest of commandments involving the eating of shellfish, pork, etc. The ones you cafeteria Christians ignore because they "magically became not sinful anymore."

"Of course Jesus never mentioned pedophilia, it was the social norm in his time."
According to whom?...the Bible or one of the Three Ugly Sisters?

According to the canonical texts of the Bible.

"What does the Bible say about drugs? Booze was pretty popular with the Jesus Gang."
I dunno what the Bible says about drugs; Jesus never mentioned them either, just like He "never mentioned homosexuality".
Wine was the popular drink, but we don't know the alcoholic content. Most Christians discourage alcohol altogether because it can be a hindrance to witnessing to someone else and drunkenness destroys families.

You don't know too many Christians do you? Few Christians think drinking is a sin. Mostly just the Baptists, and most of them just pretend to.

"He gave his disciples bread, saying, "This is my body", and gave them wine saying, "This is my blood." My guess is that the hashish and "This is my breath" was one of the things edited out."
That's what you get for guessing. Wrong guess. Those were symbolic as an atonement for sin; but you knew that. That ridicule thingy, you know.

So what? It's still wine? Unless you're Catholic, then it magically turns to flesh and blood. What a disgusting ritual. No wonder there's so much violence in western religions considering their obsession with blood.

[O Really]

Or for that matter, making a unilateral decision that "keeping the Sabbath holy" could be done just as well on Sunday.

[O Really]

Let's say the Bible is the word of God, and all those who wrote it were directly transcribing God's words, which were spoken to them directly. Since that time, there has been a lot of translation and "interpretation" which continues until today. Not everyone who interprets can be right since interpretations vary and do not always agree. For example, the Bible seems to say unequivantly "thou shalt not kill." The term "kill" seems prett clear, but the the interpreters tell us it doesn't mean kill it means "murder." Makes sense, but by what authority is the re-interpretation made?

[Bungalow Bill]

I think we're close to the same page on cherry picking. Not that my premise is
that the Bible makes sense, but that there is very little in it that does and those
parts are few and far between and have to be cherry picked. Besides the organization
that lends itself to that, this is a very long book we're talking about, so there's a lot
in there that doesn't always make for internal agreement.

I wonder if Graham's columns are now just recycled from earlier times. I always get a
kick out of the ones where someone says they believe in numerology or palmistry or
other occult practices and his answer is basically how could you believe in such
things? Why don't you believe in a "sensible" type of supernaturalism like mine.

[Boatrocker]

Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"
Yep. Them xtians just don't leave any rod unspared.

[Boatrocker]

He should build some sort of business relationship with those fine xtians up at Word of Faith in Spindale. These people are the American Taliban and should be dealt with accordingly.

[bannination]

Awesome

[Mr.B]

Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

"To Train Up a Child was published by Michael and Debi Pearl in 1994. Michael Pearl claims that it has sold more than 670,000 copies, although Nielsen BookScan records only 9,579 sales since 2001."

"Any thoughts on whether the Christian fundamentalist pastor, missionary, evangelist and book author is that big a liar or whether there are that many child abusing Christians, Mr.B?"

What a heart-wrenching story....and to think that anyone with a sound mind would believe that out and out child abuse is the proper way to "train up a child".
The Bible teaches to discipline children; without discipline, children grow up with no respect for themselves, their parents, anyone else, or the property of others. Such behavior is commonplace in our society today, you see it all around you.

To answer your question though, I'll start with agreeing that the book author is a liar over the number of his publications sold; and that I would have to agree that there are 'that many child abusing "Christians"', (emphasis on "Christians") because zealots come from all walks of life and all forms of ideologies.
There are people who go to ridiculous extremes just because someone who claims to be an authority on a given subject says so.

I stand on what I've said over and over....."Just because someone claims to be ____________ doesn't mean they really are"
(fill in the blank with your selection(s) from the list below, or add your own)

a Christian
a pastor
an evangelist
a missionary
a learned author
a mechanic
an electrician
a plumber
an Ombudsman
a doctor

Get the idea?
I've even wondered about some of the health professionals I've been to, even though they have official-looking credentials framed on their walls!

I believe the Pearls should be charged as accessories to murder, but then, they only wrote the book, they didn't force anyone to buy it.

[Mr.B]

"......though I still wonder if we get to blithely disown lefties when they do something ugly."

You're kidding, right? The ACLU would be on you like white on rice if you violate someone's civil rights. Probably why the Pearl's will never face charges;
they had a right to write their garbage; they depend on other's gullibility for their wealth.

[Mr.B]

My bad. I misunderstood your meaning.

[Ombudsman]

I stand on what I've said over and over....."Just because someone claims to be ____________ doesn't mean they really are"
.

That's a fairly stupid argument when it comes to one's religious beliefs. Your arrogance seems to allow you to believe you can declare who is a Christian and who isn't. If someone honestly believes Jesus is the son of God, then they are a Christian. Doesn't matter what other screwball beliefs they have, that one is the very thing that makes them a Christian.

[Mr.B]

"That's a fairly stupid argument when it comes to one's religious beliefs. Your arrogance seems to allow you to believe you can declare who is a Christian and who isn't. If someone honestly believes Jesus is the son of God, then they are a Christian. Doesn't matter what other screwball beliefs they have, that one is the very thing that makes them a Christian."

I had a feeling you were lurking in there somewhere. but....you are correct; if someone honestly believes Jesus is the son of God, then they are a Christian; but living a Christian life is another thing.

Again, you're correct.....I can't "declare who is a Christian and who isn't", but one's actions belie their testimony.

I can declare that I'm any one of those professions I've listed, but if I'm not any one of those professions I've listed, I would be a liar....and a liar and a thief is not a Christian in his/her heart, regardless what they can lead others to believe. Is that really stupid?

Here's a good example...I'm sure you've received any one of scam emails wherein the writer claimed to be the childless widow of a very rich Christian individual who's last "dying wish" was to have his vast wealth distributed out to a responsible party who will see that it goes to deserving entities. All you have to do is..........

Therefore, being a Christian involves more than being a title.

[Mr.B]

"There's still my question . . ."

Sorry....I overlooked that. I suppose you could argue however your conscience allowed!

[Ombudsman]

I had a feeling you were lurking in there somewhere. but….you are correct; if someone honestly believes Jesus is the son of God, then they are a Christian; but living a Christian life is another thing.

Lurking? Yeah I clicked the link just like you did. You have a hard time not being a prick don't you? Why is that?

I can declare that I'm any one of those professions I've listed, but if I'm not any one of those professions I've listed, I would be a liar....and a liar and a thief is not a Christian in his/her heart, regardless what they can lead others to believe. Is that really stupid?

It's a stupid analogy yes. There are different criteria for the various things you mentioned. Being a Christian involves just believing the supernatural claims of Jesus. That one thing alone makes someone a Christian.

Here's a good example...I'm sure you've received any one of scam emails wherein the writer claimed to be the childless widow of a very rich Christian individual who's last "dying wish" was to have his vast wealth distributed out to a responsible party who will see that it goes to deserving entities. All you have to do is..........

Nope never received one of those, but then again I'm probably not pegged as an easy mark the way gullible religious types are.

[O Really]

My understanding is that one becomes a Christian by "accepting Jesus Christ." At least that's what Billy Graham said for years. I haven't looked it up, but I think there is also some references in the Bible that one is saved by belief, not by acts. Further, I seem to recall reading that only God is perfect, and that everyone else sins. So it seems kinda hard to say that a sinner who is a believer (or a believer who is a sinner) isn't a "true" Christian.

[Mr.B]

"Being a Christian involves just believing the supernatural claims of Jesus. That one thing alone makes someone a Christian."

"My understanding is that one becomes a Christian by "accepting Jesus Christ." At least that's what Billy Graham said for years. I haven't looked it up, but I think there is also some references in the Bible that one is saved by belief, not by acts. Further, I seem to recall reading that only God is perfect, and that everyone else sins. So it seems kinda hard to say that a sinner who is a believer (or a believer who is a sinner) isn't a "true" Christian."

Romans 10:9-16 (KJV)
9. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10. ** For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

** Once one has accepted (truly accepted) in his/her heart, knowledge and belief in Jesus Christ, the believing Christian should strive to turn away from
the evils and temptations of the world. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." By professing a belief in God and yet continuing to live a life of deceit, hatefulness, and malice towards others is definitely not that of a Christian, regardless of what you say you are.

The devil also believes in God, that does not make him a good person or a Christian.

[Mr.B]

"You have a hard time not being a prick don't you? Why is that?"

Let me see if I've got this correctly......
You rarely post unless I post something in reference to Christianity....

When I post, you vehemently debunk religion....

When I criticize those who act maliciously in the name of the Lord, you criticize me....

....and you're calling me a prick? I guess that means you've never looked at yourself in the mirror, huh? :-0?>
Something about that casting the first stone thingy comes to mind.......

[O Really]

** Once one has accepted (truly accepted) in his/her heart, knowledge and belief in Jesus Christ, the believing Christian should strive to turn away from
the evils and temptations of the world. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." By professing a belief in God and yet continuing to live a life of deceit, hatefulness, and malice towards others is definitely not that of a Christian, regardless of what you say you are.

The devil also believes in God, that does not make him a good person or a Christian.

OK, let's go with that. I'm thinking that Devil you reference may be found in the details. Like the term "strive." Striving doesn't always result in immediate success, right? So a person believes, accepts, confesses, yada, and works hard not to "live a life of deceit, hatefulness, and malice..." Nevertheless, being human, s/he falls short. Is there a limit to the number of times one can strive and be forgiven for failure?
Would it be a lifetime limit, or an annual limit? It appears from your cites that only the striving is the measure of being "real" - not necessarily the actual results.

[Mr.B]

"Striving doesn't always result in immediate success, right? So a person believes, accepts, confesses, yada, and works hard not to "live a life of deceit, hatefulness, and malice..."
No, there is not immediate success. When I turned my life around and accepted Christ, I didn't hear or see fireworks, feel mountains move, or notice if the Earth trembled. I did feel a great feeling of relief that I had a venue to take my problems and grief to One that I felt would listen, albeit He was not there
physically, but I could feel that He was present in my heart.

"Nevertheless, being human, s/he falls short. Is there a limit to the number of times one can strive and be forgiven for failure?
Would it be a lifetime limit, or an annual limit? It appears from your cites that only the striving is the measure of being "real" - not necessarily the actual results."
We're still human; subject to the same failures we experienced before salvation.

As far as the limits of our failures, I can't answer that; but being an intelligent creation, we should have sense enough to know that God is not pleased with wickedness or malice and we should take measures to correct our own faults. Hiding behind a curtain and confessing one's faults to another mortal human is not going to automatically absolve us of any wrongdoing. "No man cometh unto the Father, but by Me".

[JTA]

Scenario: Suppose one day it was somehow proven that all religion is a lie; there's irrefutable evidence that God/gods don't exist and all religious texts are sham. What would be the overall impact on society?