Tree Hugger Thread

[Guest]

(Banni: any quote ends up being the same blue as a link. Any way to change that?)

Hm..... I'll have to check into that.

[Tertius]

Stanford University energy research finds an answer blowing in the wind

New research from the Atmosphere/Energy Program at Stanford University delivers the first-ever quantitative analysis of  the offshore wind energy resource from Virginia to Maine. The Stanford researchers conclude that roughly one-third (34%)  of the United States carbon free electricity demand (from Florida to Maine) can be technically provided with interconnected offshore wind farms along the East Coast.  Moreover, the research concluded that hundreds of gigawatts of high-voltage direct current (HVDC) can be transmitted through the proposed Atlantic Wind Connection seabed transmission line from New York to Virginia.

The research team inserted 140,000 wind turbines (5 megawatts each) into their computer model along the Eastern Seaboard with many of the turbines installed so far offshore that they would not be seen from land.  In the long term, the research demonstrates that the deliberate shift to renewable energy including wind would offset pollution and wean our energy policy off dirty, dangerous and expensive power and move it into the carbon-free nuclear-free 21st Century.

Computer models can be constructed to come to any conclusion. I am pro-wind generation. I saw how effective it worked (is working) in the UK. I do not find them unattractive. But, as long as Gore is seen as the alternative energy leader the industry will have a credibility problem.

North Atlantic wind generation farms will be a maintenance nightmare. I do not believe this idea will be long term cost effective. Land based wind generation in the New England states would likely work just fine. Wind generation should be proven there before wasting money offshore.

Until utility companies can make cost effective changes where feasible we must and should use coal and other cost effective electric generation fuels.

[Tertius]

Offshore wind generation is proven, and if you'd ever sailed in the North Sea you'd know that it can also be done in the US North Atlantic.

Interesting where is this offshore proven generation occurring?

Tell me about your North Sea sailing. That is something I am not likely to try. Maybe the costal waterways of New England or southern England would be fun. You must be an accomplished sailor.

[Tertius]

You said they were "proven." The UK has just started installing the offshore turbines. You also said we could put them so far offshore they could not be seen.

My first question is. Why so far? It will cost more to install, maintain and there will be a power drop over the greater distance.

"The development of the UK's offshore wind farms has so far been conducted in water depths of up to 25 meters, with the exception of Beatrice, a wind farm consisting of 2 turbines, in 45 meters of water. The preferred construction method so far is a monopile driven into the seabed (out of 568 turbines 536 are on monopiles), on which a transition piece is mounted which connects to the turbine tower. The total weight of an offshore turbine is around 450 tonnes."

I don't know much about how fast the bottom drops off the northeast coast but I think out of sight might be much deeper. I doubt the UK is worried about seeing the wind turbines.

The most important point is cost effectiveness. All energy is much more expensive in the UK. My guess is it is still twice as expensive or more. To drive the point many lower middle income homeowners actually feed currency into their meters to get electricity.

I like wind generation. The wind is free and blows day and night. I hope it can become a part of our generation mix.

I think your expectations are unrealistic and your constraints impractical.

[blackfoot]

and not all that accomplished, just regular crew.

No kidding! LOL!

[neoplacebo]

I like what I do pretty well, but have always wanted to troubleshoot electric dog polishers somewhere in the Northwest Territory. Maybe one day I will make the change......

[Supsalemgr]

I hope Vrede is keeping her bike in good shape.

[O Really]

It always is, but NC roads are forbidding for walkers or bikers.

You live in the wrong neighborhood. Come try mine.
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20 ... iving-work

[Reality]

Neither. It's because you and your ilk have not come up with an alternative, believable answer.

[Leo Lyons]

Resurrecting dead threads. Seems only Vrede has the authority to that.

[mike]

Interesting ... time to sit back and watch the oil speculators raise the price at the pump once again ...

A bit of history on oil speculation courtesy of Thom Hartmann:

[O Really]

More reasons to hug trees...might save your own life.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archi ... picks=true

[mike]

Marlin - 1, fishing boat - <glug, glug>

Awesome! Thanks, Vrede!

[rstrong]

Link

BTW, Polio was down to under 250 cases last year. In another five or six years it'll be the second disease eradicated, after smallpox. Wow.

[rstrong]

BTW, Polio was down to under 250 cases last year. In another five or six years it'll be the second disease eradicated, after smallpox. Wow.

You may have to adjust that timetable: Killing Osama bin Laden, killing kids

I'm not too worried; the unpopularity of the US doesn't translate to popularity of the Taliban. They've earned an even bigger public relations problem there than America has.

Pakistanis as a whole are more than smart enough to separate polio eradication from the Taliban issue, and to know that its a good thing.

[rstrong]

BTW, Polio was down to under 250 cases last year. In another five or six years it'll be the second disease eradicated, after smallpox. Wow.

South Korea, with a 98% vaccination rate, was entirely measles free in 2012. Not a single case. The previous lowest record was two cases in 2008.

[Wneglia]

California tree-huggers win

[O Really]

What Happened to the Environmental Movement?

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/a ... picks=true

[neoplacebo]

Pretty slick deal for the atom smashers; I myself get a modest subsidy if I don't grow turnips, but I'm sure it's nothing like this here business.

[rstrong]

I didn't know the environmental loopholes for fracking were this bad...

Wikipedia: Energy Policy Act of 2005

This bill exempted fluids used in the natural gas extraction process of hydraulic fracturing (fracking) from protections under the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, and CERCLA. It created a loophole that exempts companies drilling for natural gas from disclosing the chemicals involved in fracking operations that would normally be required under federal clean water laws — see exemptions for hydraulic fracturing under United States federal law. The loophole is commonly known as the "Halliburton loophole" since former Halliburton CEO Dick Cheney was reportedly instrumental in its passage.

As with domestic spying, torture, the banking fraud that led to the 2008 collapse etc. the natural response is: "We're not accusing you of breaking the law. We're just really shocked that you didn't have to."