The Religion Thread

[neoplacebo]

We’re putting an end to religion: Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher and the exploding new American secularism
Religious right extremism, new atheists & late-night mockery have religion on the run. American secularism's rising

What is going on? How do we explain this recent wave of secularization that is washing over so much of America?

The answer to these questions is actually much less theological or philosophical than one might think. It is simply not the case that in recent years tens of millions of Americans have suddenly started doubting the cosmological or ontological arguments for the existence of God, or that hundreds of thousands of other Americans have miraculously embraced the atheistic naturalism of Denis Diderot.... But the larger reality is that for the many millions of Americans who have joined the ranks of the nonreligious, the causes are most likely to be political and sociological in nature.

For starters, we can begin with the presence of the religious right, and the backlash it has engendered....

Makes sense to me. Over the years I have proudly worked side by side on peace, environmental, social justice and international solidarity issues with believers, and I've always respected the depth of commitment their faith has given them. All antipathy I feel towards the religious is not because they're religious but rather because they've allowed religion to be highjacked by the GOP, haters, misogynists, homophobes, racists and RWNJs. Good job, believers, you've damaged US religion more than any atheists have.

What do you think?

I tend to agree with that assessment. I've also wondered lately what effect the continued rise of radical Islam has, if any, on believers and non believers; I've decided that it tends to strengthen the beliefs of the believers and also to confirm to non believers their own position that religion is irrational as well as a refuge for those with an agenda. I suppose it only goes to show that religion has a polarizing effect on everybody. Pick a pole, folks.

[neoplacebo]

From AFP: "The Franciscan Order, founded by St. Francis of Assisi, who advocated a life of poverty, in in deep financial trouble following the discovery of massive fraud and is appealing for help." I thought that was pretty ironic.

[O Really]

So the local news from South Florida is about the "attack" on the demonic display in the state capitol. Since they let in the manger scene, they had to let in others, including, so far, the Spagettist display and a stack of beer cans from the Festivus people. The demonists (inaccurately called "atheists" by the news people, put up a nice display with a black suspended (falling) angel on its way into the flames of Hell. Today, some "Catholic Warrior" (identified by her t-shirt), tried to trash the display and did it some damage. If it had been the manager scene, the news people might have used the term "desecrated" but this display was simply "attacked." No permanent damage, the display is returned. The woman was caught on video, captured, and charged. She said because "Satan" was in "her house" she had to act, and her only regret was that she didn't "monkey stomp the evil thing while I had a chance." No violent repression there.

[O Really]

.... She said because "Satan" was in "her house" she had to act ...

She should have just kicked out her boyfriend or husband, instead. Maybe it's her cat, I've had ones like that.

Meanwhile, Xmastime tornadoes in the heart of the AGW denying Bible Belt. God works in not so mysterious ways.

And some of the people who lost their homes said they were "blessed" not to have gotten killed. Some "blessing." They lose all their earthly possessions, and get rejected for a trip to Heaven. "Blessed" might be more appropriate for someone who was relieved of the misery of living in Mississippi.

[O Really]

Story here... http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/12/23/sa ... l-damaged/

[neoplacebo]

Story here... http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/12/23/sa ... l-damaged/

I myself find some of what the GOP as well as religious fundamentalists do and support to be "grossly offensive" but I don't bitch and whine about it, even though it's my right to do so. I figure they're not worth wasting my time and effort on and ignore their lunacy and stupidity.

[O Really]

If "grossly offensive" were the standard for what could be displayed, what would happen to all the images celebrating torture and death of a black guy by lynching? Or of a Jewish guy by crucifixion?

[neoplacebo]

If "grossly offensive" were the standard for what could be displayed, what would happen to all the images celebrating torture and death of a black guy by lynching? Or of a Jewish guy by crucifixion?

In the first case, it would be ignored, winked at, or tacitly supported; in the other, it would be revered and be the basis of a popular religion.

[rstrong]

Six or seven years ago there was a crowd on Digg defending the US torture program, including the torture of people who turned out to be innocent. And they'd even quote Jesus to do it. One I thought worth saving:

StaticThunder: I'm sure Christ would torture innocent people to selfishly save those he loved too. He always said, put your family first, and screw everybody else. In fact, at Gethsemane, he said "Do whatever it takes, no matter how vile, to keep those you care about from dying."

Speaking of Florida, News of the Weird republished a good Jesus Defence around the same time:

In September 2009, a judge in Stuart, Fla., was about to sentence pastor Rodney McGill for real estate fraud, but McGill was undaunted, addressing a courtroom prayer for his enemies: "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, for every witness called against me, I pray cancer in their lives, lupus, brain tumor, pancreatic cancer." The judge then sentenced him to 20 years in prison. [South Florida Sun-Sentinel, 9-9-09]

Air Force officers who attended missile officer training were getting a course on the ethics of launching nuclear weapons, which quoting Bible passages. They called it the "Jesus loves nukes speech."

[neoplacebo]

I wonder how pastor Rodney is doing down there and if his prayer worked, but not too much.

[O Really]

I wonder how pastor Rodney is doing down there and if his prayer worked, but not too much.

They got him again in 2010 and added a few more years to his guest pass in Starke, one of the more aptly named Florida places.
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/jury-finds-p ... rying-scam

And then he blames his lawyer... http://www.4dca.org/opinions/June%20201 ... 002.op.pdf

[rstrong]

I wonder how pastor Rodney is doing down there and if his prayer worked, but not too much.

In his defence, Jesus cursed a fig tree for having no figs (out of season!) (Jesus hates figs!) and God killed a bunch of children for mocking an old man.

But what the heck. A quick Google search finds that a year later:

Jury finds ex-pastor Rodney McGill guilty of trying to scam couple from jail

Racketeering Pastor Faces New Charges After Continuing Crime Behind Bars

The victim was unaware that McGill was talking to her from the Martin County Jail because he used a third party to make the phone calls.

And it turns out he already had an extensive history including a couple arrests for beating his 16-year-old daughter and fraud.

According to news reports, three women approached “Pastor” for some advice on how to get rich in real estate. They trusted him because he was driving a—-*COUGH*—-Rolls Royce and his wife, Shalonda was a mortgage broker.

In 2013 (PDF): DISTRICT COURT OF APPEAL OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA

Petitioner Rodney McGill seeks a writ of habeas corpus claiming that appellate counsel was ineffective for failing to raise on direct appeal his pro se objection to the giving of Fla. Std. Jury Instr. (Crim.) 14.1 during his trial for first degree grand theft.
[...]
Petition for writ of habeas corpus denied.

[neoplacebo]

Well, obviously his faith is not strong enough or else it's failing him. Poor bastard.

[Mr.B]

"I think Mr.B has said that he's Methodist, but I might be wrong."

Right, you're wrong.

[Mr.B]

"Good job, believers, you've damaged US religion more than any atheists have."
"What do you think?"

I agree with that, but not entirely on the same grounds. I don't think U.S. believers have done anymore to discredit or "damage" 'religion' than "any atheists have".

There are those who were raised in a Christian atmosphere, but were forced into every whim of the church by overly-zealous parents (Denis Diderot for instance) who, despite their well-meaning intentions, did more to discourage them and turn them away from religion. I believe there are some here in this forum who fit that description.

....I give Satan credit for the success....

He's done, and is still doing, an excellent job in convincing mankind that he nor God exists now, or ever has existed.

[Mr.B]

Vrede posted:

We’re putting an end to religion: Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher and the exploding new American secularism
Religious right extremism, new atheists & late-night mockery have religion on the run. American secularism's rising

What a bunch of egotistical, attention-seeking airheads!

Surely they know that this same statement has, in various forms of wording, been said over and over before? People in higher places than they can ever dream of being in, have said and tried to do the same thing.

The Romans fed Christians to lions, Hitler exterminated Jews, Muslims behead non-Muslims, North Korea executes people of any religion....the list goes on; and these idiots think their egotistical glory-seeking will stamp out God? Thanks for the laugh of the day.

[Mr.B]

"Once again, as is his consistent habit, Mr.B eliminates much of a post and then makes an ass of himself with his response. The featured point of the article, the part I quoted and my own words place far less stock in what atheists and secularists are doing to religion than what the bunch of egotistical, attention-seeking, religious right extremists like Mr.B are doing to themselves."

"Mr.B is dishonestly running away from any personal responsibility, and his examples of haters a bit more extreme than him are a scream - "Hitler exterminated" gays, "Muslims behead" gays and the Romans are ancient version of the state repression he adores and wails over falling by the wayside."

Thanks for the another laugh of for the day. We know "your own words" far out-rank those of others; you demonstrate that daily.
I only eliminate the portion I don't wish to comment on; why post the whole thing?

:cussing: Besides, it makes your hiney suck up your pantyhose when I do that. :cussing:

[neoplacebo]

Pantyhose is second only to religion as the bane of mankind. In both cases, criminals use it to facilitate their actions.

[O Really]

Just wondering - why is it that both God and Satan are portrayed as males, even though neither is an actual earthly physical being?

[Mr.B]

"Just wondering - why is it that both God and Satan are portrayed as males, even though neither is an actual earthly physical being?"

Would it have made any difference if either of them had been portrayed as females? Satan still has mankind convinced that neither exist.

"Because insecure men don't want to admit who really gives life . . . or who is best at being evil."

The male is *supposed* to be the stronger of the two sexes; in strength and mentality....Satan took care of that notion too.

Male or female....both are capable of evil and cunning; neither are "best" at it.