Gun Legislation

[bannination]

I've got it. Let's outlaw people. The guns can then peacefully behave themselves with everyone gone.

[Mr.B]

"I've got it. Let's outlaw people. The guns can then peacefully behave themselves with everyone gone."

Spoken like a true-blood liberal.....you go boy!

[neoplacebo]

I've got it. Let's outlaw people. The guns can then peacefully behave themselves with everyone gone.

Well, we already have people control, or some semblance of it, via the general statutes. Perhaps we should subscribe to Romney's assertion that, along with corporations, guns are people, too.

[O Really]

Now...what to do about punishment that is more lenient for some than it is for others? Understand "revamping" much?

Each case is different - even if the charge is the same. That's why we call them "judges" instead of "sentence machines."
When the authority to judge is taken away, you get really stupid sentences like the woman in FL who got sent to jail for shooting her own floor in self defense. Or the guy who, under a "three strikes" rule gets sent to prison for a bar fight in which nobody is injured. Or where - following similar logic - a picture of a gun in school becomes a gun and a nail clipper becomes a weapon and kids get expelled while those who really do shoot up schools and school kids with real guns get defended by the NRA and their army of attorneys.

[O Really]

Here's what I mean about the gun ummmmm "enthusiasts" losing the culture war. It used to be common to see rifles or shotguns in a rack in a pickup back window. When was the last time you saw one? It used to be common for little kids to wear their toy guns everywhere and shoot each other in the park. Not lately. Even Halloween "cowboys" are unarmed. BB guns used to be toys - now they're weapons, subject to the same laws as real guns. Kids playing with toy guns, including BB guns in parks didn't used to get shot by police. A guy carrying a rifle in an apartment complex during hunting season didn't used to attract multiple 911 "man with a gun" calls. A reasonable analogy is smoking - which is still legal, but restricted in specific places. Smokers are social outcasts, banished to alleys at least 50 feet from doorways. A lot of people have quit smoking mainly because it's just too much trouble and too expensive. Yet nobody "banned" or "outlawed" or "confiscated" their cigarettes. No matter how many laws the NRA gets passed to let fearful paranoid people pack heat to the grocery and the dog park, the act of doing so will become increasingly socially unacceptable.

[Mr.B]

So...let's say you're shopping at the grocery store and you're accosted in the parking lot by a thug with a knife or a gun......
is that the point you begin to get fearful and paranoid? Or should you just wait until you are accosted?

[O Really]

So...let's say you're shopping at the grocery store and you're accosted in the parking lot by a thug with a knife or a gun......
is that the point you begin to get fearful and paranoid? Or should you just wait until you are accosted?

Funny you should mention that particular example. Happened to somebody I knew (not well) in Florida. Got jumped in the Stein Mart lot. Did what she should have done and screamed and fought like hell and the guy ran off. Another friend (who knew the victim very well) was a co-owner of a karate company and put together a class mostly for women on defensive behaviour. Bottom line, if you wait to get accosted, you're dead meat. Pay attention to where you park, what you park beside, what time of day it is, what other cars are around. Look at and around your car before you approach it, and then look in it before you get in. If there's any worry, get somebody to walk out with you. Carry your keys in your hand in a manner they could be a weapon (scratch, poke), keep pepper spray mini on your key chain, know where the panic button is on your keychain, unlock your car as you approach, don't be overburdened with packages - bring a cart and keep your hands mostly free. I could go on, but I'd have to charge you for the lesson, but it's a long way down the list before you get to "carry a loaded firearm in your hand going to the parking lot."

Question: if a thug is holding a gun on you, and you have a gun either holstered or in your pocket, is your best defense to grab your gun or just run? According to personal defense experts, your chances are better to run, using a rabbit-like zig-zag route. Odds are the thug won't shoot you; if he does shoot, odds are he'll miss. If you do get hit, odds are you won't get killed. Go for your gun, on the other hand, and odds are great you'll get killed. Because at that point, the thug is scared.

Real rule: if accosted in the parking lot, Do. Not. Get. Into. The. Car. If you're going to die, you'd rather die in the parking lot. No place he's going to take you will get any better for you. Don't think you can appease him. Don't think he has pity. Fight. Scream. Don't give up.

[neoplacebo]

So...let's say you're shopping at the grocery store and you're accosted in the parking lot by a thug with a knife or a gun......
is that the point you begin to get fearful and paranoid? Or should you just wait until you are accosted?

Is the thug smoking? This would tend to reinforce the notion that you're in trouble. I was once accosted in a grocery store parking lot by a guy who did not display a weapon but instead displayed an arrogant attitude; he wanted me to give him money and vaguely threatened me by saying "what would it take for me to do to make you do what I want?" or something similar to that. Well, I just dropped my grocery bag and said "what do you think it would take?" and he sort of shut up. I could have been shot or stabbed, but I figured the guy was bullshit, so I decided to confront him. It was probably a stupid thing to do, but you had to have been there.....I took my chance on that one and won. He skulked away without any of my money.

[O Really]

So...let's say you're shopping at the grocery store and you're accosted in the parking lot by a thug with a knife or a gun......
is that the point you begin to get fearful and paranoid? Or should you just wait until you are accosted?

Is the thug smoking? This would tend to reinforce the notion that you're in trouble. I was once accosted in a grocery store parking lot by a guy who did not display a weapon but instead displayed an arrogant attitude; he wanted me to give him money and vaguely threatened me by saying "what would it take for me to do to make you do what I want?" or something similar to that. Well, I just dropped my grocery bag and said "what do you think it would take?" and he sort of shut up. I could have been shot or stabbed, but I figured the guy was bullshit, so I decided to confront him. It was probably a stupid thing to do, but you had to have been there.....I took my chance on that one and won. He skulked away without any of my money.

Good call. If he'd had a weapon, he probably would have brandished it up front. If you'd tried to ignore him or shown fear, he'd probably have kept at you.

[neoplacebo]

So...let's say you're shopping at the grocery store and you're accosted in the parking lot by a thug with a knife or a gun......
is that the point you begin to get fearful and paranoid? Or should you just wait until you are accosted?

Is the thug smoking? This would tend to reinforce the notion that you're in trouble. I was once accosted in a grocery store parking lot by a guy who did not display a weapon but instead displayed an arrogant attitude; he wanted me to give him money and vaguely threatened me by saying "what would it take for me to do to make you do what I want?" or something similar to that. Well, I just dropped my grocery bag and said "what do you think it would take?" and he sort of shut up. I could have been shot or stabbed, but I figured the guy was bullshit, so I decided to confront him. It was probably a stupid thing to do, but you had to have been there.....I took my chance on that one and won. He skulked away without any of my money.

Good call. If he'd had a weapon, he probably would have brandished it up front. If you'd tried to ignore him or shown fear, he'd probably have kept at you.

Well, thanks. That was my only encounter with potential crime.....as it happened I was pissed off about another entirely different matter when this moron came upon me; otherwise I might have been more susceptible to his threats. He just picked the wrong person at the wrong time that day.

[Mr.B]

"Question: if a thug is holding a gun on you, and you have a gun either holstered or in your pocket, is your best defense to grab your gun or just run? According to personal defense experts, your chances are better to run, using a rabbit-like zig-zag route. Odds are the thug won't shoot you; if he does shoot, odds are he'll miss. If you do get hit, odds are you won't get killed. Go for your gun, on the other hand, and odds are great you'll get killed. Because at that point, the thug is scared."
I wonder how many "personal defense experts" have been in that situation? Me...I would run like a rabbit in a zig-zag fashion, then stop and fire my own weapon. His odds of getting shot would be greater than mine.

[O Really]

"Question: if a thug is holding a gun on you, and you have a gun either holstered or in your pocket, is your best defense to grab your gun or just run? According to personal defense experts, your chances are better to run, using a rabbit-like zig-zag route. Odds are the thug won't shoot you; if he does shoot, odds are he'll miss. If you do get hit, odds are you won't get killed. Go for your gun, on the other hand, and odds are great you'll get killed. Because at that point, the thug is scared."
I wonder how many "personal defense experts" have been in that situation? Me...I would run like a rabbit in a zig-zag fashion, then stop and fire my own weapon. His odds of getting shot would be greater than mine.

I take it you are a weapons and personal defense expert yourself? You'd pretty much have to be to think you could be attacked, run away, find the opportunity to draw your firearm, aim at someone who probably isn't just standing there and think you'd have much chance of hitting him. Waytago hotshot. You're way better than me. Or Massad Ayoub for that matter.

[neoplacebo]

"Question: if a thug is holding a gun on you, and you have a gun either holstered or in your pocket, is your best defense to grab your gun or just run? According to personal defense experts, your chances are better to run, using a rabbit-like zig-zag route. Odds are the thug won't shoot you; if he does shoot, odds are he'll miss. If you do get hit, odds are you won't get killed. Go for your gun, on the other hand, and odds are great you'll get killed. Because at that point, the thug is scared."
I wonder how many "personal defense experts" have been in that situation? Me...I would run like a rabbit in a zig-zag fashion, then stop and fire my own weapon. His odds of getting shot would be greater than mine.

I take it you are a weapons and personal defense expert yourself? You'd pretty much have to be to think you could be attacked, run away, find the opportunity to draw your firearm, aim at someone who probably isn't just standing there and think you'd have much chance of hitting him. Waytago hotshot. You're way better than me. Or Massad Ayoub for that matter.

I think I'd like to do the thing you see on old Western movies.....you just fire your whole magazine into the ground in the vicinity of the aggressors feet and suggest he dance. But in the real world that's not really an option since he's likely to sidestep your ballet and whack you with reality.

[O Really]

I think I'd like to do the thing you see on old Western movies.....you just fire your whole magazine into the ground in the vicinity of the aggressors feet and suggest he dance. But in the real world that's not really an option since he's likely to sidestep your ballet and whack you with reality.

Yeah, and shooting from the hip so accurately you can hit only his gun, tearing it from his hand yet leaving him with only an painful look on his face.

[Boatrocker]

I think I'd like to do the thing you see on old Western movies.....you just fire your whole magazine into the ground in the vicinity of the aggressors feet and suggest he dance. But in the real world that's not really an option since he's likely to sidestep your ballet and whack you with reality.

Yeah, and shooting from the hip so accurately you can hit only his gun, tearing it from his hand yet leaving him with only an painful look on his face.

From 200 yards.

[Mr.B]

Ain't life a bee-yatch when you argue with those who are experts and all-knowing on everything? Condescending much, Vrede?
I just grin and go on...poor 'ol Vrede ain't got nothing better to do but sit around on his free time and run others into the ground; poor miserable soul. He thinks he's hurting my feelings. Vrede, all you're doing is merely proving what others have been saying about you since the inception of this forum; I'll not repeat it, 'cause you already know what it is. Thanks for living up to your legacy.

"The comparison of guns to drugs is stupid, Mr.B........You can't grow guns in your backyard or make them in your bathtub."
NO! Really?
Geeze, I'm glad you straightened me out on that. Sorry you're so stupid you couldn't figure out the comparison or relation of drugs and guns.

Think real hard now....but don't hurt yourself. Why do you think that US citizens want to arm themselves to begin with? (careful, I know the pain is unbearable, but hang on, it gets easier) You think (ouch!) maybe it's because they want to protect themselves from those that would invade your home, steal, rob and/or murder you for sometimes less than a few dollars to buy their next fix? Next fix of what, you say.....why , drugs of course. "If drugs were legalized, the crime rate would go down", you say. Ya think so? Dopers would still have to buy drugs, albeit they may be cheaper; cheaper price, more frequent use; more frequent use, the more money they need. Where they gonna get the money? Guess? (easy now, I know the pain is unbearable at this point, but you're a big smart boy, you'll get it) Of course, in your itty, bitty liberal mind, this is absurd. (don't you lie and say you ain't no liberal)

"How did you get so broken....?"
I told you ...playing the lottery.

"I've only been accosted in the parking lot by Hare Krishnas. I wave a steak at them and they go away."
They thought you were a cannibal.

[O Really]

Mr.B hypothesizes: "Why do you think that US citizens want to arm themselves to begin with? (careful, I know the pain is unbearable, but hang on, it gets easier) You think (ouch!) maybe it's because they want to protect themselves from those that would invade your home, steal, rob and/or murder you for sometimes less than a few dollars to buy their next fix? "

I'm sure that's true in many instances, although depending on where one lives the risk is pretty low. But my question isn't so much why one wants to arm themselves. My question is why would one argue against a requirement that everyone who needs (or just wants) a firearm should be trained to use it? Why would one argue against making it easier to track weapons used in crimes - or to find yours if you lose it or it gets stolen? Why would one argue that shooting your kid while "cleaning" your firearm should be an "opps" and leaving the kid in the house by himself while you go to the store is "negligent"?

[neoplacebo]

I think I'd like to do the thing you see on old Western movies.....you just fire your whole magazine into the ground in the vicinity of the aggressors feet and suggest he dance. But in the real world that's not really an option since he's likely to sidestep your ballet and whack you with reality.

Yeah, and shooting from the hip so accurately you can hit only his gun, tearing it from his hand yet leaving him with only an painful look on his face.

I suppose now and then someone would get a lucky shot; and how about those guys that would have someone throw a coin up in the air and shoot a hole through it before it hit the ground? Guess I'd not make it too well in the Old West.

[Mr.B]

"Still haven't figured out how to get rid of the magnifying glass, have you?"

That's twice you said that; the first time I shrugged it off as your senility. So I'll bite; what are you talking about? What magnifying glass?

[neoplacebo]

The vast majority of drug / crime scenarios are ones in which the criminal does the crime in an attempt to get "legal" prescription painkiller pills. The drugs are legal for the person who happens to have them and got them from their doctors prescription, but the same drugs are not legal for the pill enthusiast / addict, who will assault, rob, kill, or whatever it takes for them to get the drug. So, the drug companies and doctors get rich on this pill racket but bear no consequences for the increasing amount of crime created by it. Sweet deal for them.