Corporal Punishment

[O Really]

Yeah, most of those things on his list are things I haven't seen - other than the hats. I don't think it's likely all that common for kids to blow their nose on a cloth napkin. People who would allow that probably don't take their kids to places with cloth napkins very much.

[O Really]

Here's an interesting article that touches on the beating issue as well as the Sharia Law tangent...
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/29/the_bib ... e_partner/

"The Bible isn’t a parenting guide: Why the religious right’s hypocrisy is so obscene
For a faith that professes to value "life," many Christian conservatives are disturbingly blasé about child abuse"

[Mr.B]

"You said you were taught manners with beatings."

Not "with" beatings (spankings); we were taught manners with oral discipline, we were spanked for unacceptable behavior and/or disrespect. You et al keep saying "beating"; I was never "beaten".

"Can you explain the not wearing a hat inside a building thing? To me, that seems like an outdated, useless, "manner". I've never seen anyone really care about whether or not someone is wearing a hat indoors."

It's a manners thingy; sorta kinda like putting your elbows on the table, slurping your soup, rising from your chair or tipping your hat when a lady approached you....you know, etiquette. Women's hats were considered a clothing accessory and not considered bad manners when worn indoors. As to the gist of your question, there was a time when society had manners. Look at some of the old b&w photos of times gone by...men didn't go to town unless they were wearing a coat and tie, women were dressed to the hilt.

"The hat thing is somewhat outdated, as styles in hats as well as manners change over time, but I suspect in some ways Mr.B might be, also. But still, some of the instances Mr.B dislikes (such as hats on in real restaurants) are still applicable."

What I like or dislike is a moot point; and yes there's many things that were once unmannerly that are now considered outdated; blowing your nose at the table must be one of them.

It's just me...I was taught manners and respect, and just because I no longer have to answer to anyone doesn't mean I have to/want to give up any of my values.

"Of course, people wearing hats and kids spitting might also be a reflection of the places Mr.B goes, too....Yeah, most of those things on his list are things I haven't seen - other than the hats. I don't think it's likely all that common for kids to blow their nose on a cloth napkin. People who would allow that probably don't take their kids to places with cloth napkins very much.

I didn't say they were kids doing those things; they were ADULTS who had no discipline or manners taught to them when they were growing up. (note-- I said they were well dressed and drove nice cars)

[Mr.B]

"You should see what happens when a child steps on Mr.B's lawn."

What happens?

[JTA]

"Can you explain the not wearing a hat inside a building thing? To me, that seems like an outdated, useless, "manner". I've never seen anyone really care about whether or not someone is wearing a hat indoors."

It's a manners thingy; sorta kinda like putting your elbows on the table, slurping your soup, rising from your chair or tipping your hat when a lady approached you....you know, etiquette. Women's hats were considered a clothing accessory and not considered bad manners when worn indoors. As to the gist of your question, there was a time when society had manners. Look at some of the old b&w photos of times gone by...men didn't go to town unless they were wearing a coat and tie, women were dressed to the hilt.

This may be a quirk unique to me, maybe not, but one thing that's always bothered me is people not removing their sunglasses when you meet them and go through the whole introduction process. It sounds weird, but it's especially annoying when the other person has mirrored sunglasses, so you end up staring at your own reflection.

[O Really]

I got my butt whipped many a time myself...I didn't want it, I felt humiliated, it hurt like hell....

Well, at least it's good it wasn't violent.

And at least it wasn't a "beating." How about a "whipping"? Can we use that?

[Mr.B]

"This may be a quirk unique to me, maybe not, but one thing that's always bothered me is people not removing their sunglasses when you meet them and go through the whole introduction process. It sounds weird, but it's especially annoying when the other person has mirrored sunglasses, so you end up staring at your own reflection.

Or family photos...




The ones I despise are those that darken when you go outdoors; especially when you want pictures. They look OK before you take the picture; afterwards the subject has those two big black blobs where their eyes should be.

[Mr.B]

I got my butt whipped many a time myself...I didn't want it, I felt humiliated, it hurt like hell....

Well, at least it's good it wasn't violent.

And at least it wasn't a "beating." How about a "whipping"? Can we use that?

Yeppers.

[O Really]

I got my butt whipped many a time myself...I didn't want it, I felt humiliated, it hurt like hell....

Well, at least it's good it wasn't violent.

And at least it wasn't a "beating." How about a "whipping"? Can we use that?

Yeppers.

Good. Then we agree. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/whipping

[O Really]

Here's a good article about parenting without beating - opps, "whipping" https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/10-tips ... 16957.html

[O Really]

[... I didn't say they were kids doing those things; they were ADULTS who had no discipline or manners taught to them when they were growing up. (note-- I said they were well dressed and drove nice cars)[/b][/color]

Are these instances you see frequently, or just have seen a time or so? Are they strangers, or your friends? If they are strangers, how do you know they weren't whipped as children? I bet a lot of kids get whipped over issues not related to manners. I'll bet a lot of low-class, mannerless parents whip their children.

[Mr.B]

[... I didn't say they were kids doing those things; they were ADULTS who had no discipline or manners taught to them when they were growing up. (note-- I said they were well dressed and drove nice cars)[/b][/color]

Are these instances you see frequently, or just have seen a time or so?
Frequently; no matter whether it's McD's or an upscale eatery.

Are they strangers, or your friends?
Strangers

If they are strangers, how do you know they weren't whipped as children?
I said "disciplined", as in taught manners and or/public decency.

I bet a lot of kids get whipped over issues not related to manners.
I'm sure of it; however, I'm sure it would depend on the offense.

I'll bet a lot of low-class, mannerless parents whip their children.
I'm sure of that too, and I'm willing to bet that the majority of them turned out more well-mannered than those who were sent to the corner for a "time-out"...regardless whether they were "low-class" or "high-class" . "High-class" kids are often ones who defy authority the most..... I'm speaking from personal observations from my years dealing with the public in their homes.

[Mr.B]

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[JTA]

You also see the sun "rise" every day, but it's really just the Earth rotating.

That was deep man.

[O Really]

The problem, Mr.B, is that you appear to use "discipline" and "whipping" (as well as it's euphemisms) interchangeably. Everybody (even those who don't do it or aren't good at it) would agree that children should learn how to behave. Standards of what is considered acceptable behavior might vary, but everybody prefers well-behaved kids to brats (even those - or maybe especially those - who have brats). But "discipline" and "punishment" are not the same thing.

BTW, how old do you think a kid can be for you to find whipping acceptable? I would think by a certain age, you might have to wonder about whose ass will be whipped.

[Mr.B]

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[Mr.B]

"BTW, how old do you think a kid can be for you to find whipping acceptable?"
When they're old enough to differentiate right from wrong; a lie from the truth. The first act a child learns, is to lie.

"I would think by a certain age, you might have to wonder about whose ass will be whipped."
If the child had been "disciplined" while growing up, you wouldn't have to wonder about that now, would you?

discipline:
noun

1. Something, such as loss, pain, or confinement, imposed for wrongdoing:
castigation, chastisement, correction, penalty, punishment.

2. An area of academic study that is part of a larger body of learning: branch, specialty.

verb

1. To impart knowledge and skill to: coach, educate, instruct, school, teach, train, tutor.

2. To subject (one) to a penalty for a wrong: castigate, chastise, correct, penalize, punish.

3. Spanking - the act of slapping or striking on the buttocks

[Mr.B]

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[Mr.B]

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[O Really]

Irrelevant

Naturally...you're a screaming liberal.

You can claim you're "not a liberal" politically, but you're definitely liberal in your screwed-up mind.

Under what alternate reality can child care (or child abuse) be a political issue? Right wing, left wing, middle wing - doesn't everyone want the best for their kids? Doesn't everyone like to think they're doing what is best for their kids? You may make an argument that right wingers tend to beat - opps, whip - their kids more than left-wingers, but that still doesn't make it political. You have implied ridicule at punishments like "time out" but haven't actually shown that for a particular kid at a particular age that it's ineffective. Do you know the psychological theory of "time out"? It's to de-escalate. To provide an opportunity to calm down. To make the kid receptive to correction. Why is that ridiculous?

More personal disclosure - I was a "horse person" for many years. My sport was eventing - a combination of stadium jumping, cross-country, and dressage. I learned a lot from my dressage coach. One thing was that I learned much more from my coach who didn't emphasize the "don't" but got me into what I was supposed to do and then said, "yes - that's it!" Wolfgang didn't punish me - he taught and encouraged me. The other thing had to do with training the horse. You've seen those horses from the Spanish Riding School https://www.google.com/search?q=spanish ... 66&bih=643 with their great head and neck position - gliding "effortlessly" from one movement to another. A lot of people think the rider is holding tight on the reins to make the horse hold that position. But that's not what you do. You pull the horse's head into position and - at the moment the horse relaxes, you relax your hold. This teaches the horse what you want to happen, and reward him (by release of pressure) for doing it.

I don't understand why some people think their kids are less capable of learning by gentle means than horses.