Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

[O Really]

Although I've heard of the 1963 16th Street Baptist Church bombing my entire life, I was too young to understand its impact on the nation at the time. This must have been what it was like.

When you visit Birmingham and go to the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute to see the pic of my dad getting hosed by the Birmingham firefighters, you can visit the church, too. Standing in it gives you chills.

[Vrede too]

When you visit Birmingham ...

Got a copy of the pic you can post? Or, if you ever get around to watching, does it appear in this video - Permanent Exhibitions-Virtual Tour?

[O Really]

It's not in the vid, but in the museum it's in the same section as those at 19.11 on the vid. The only reason I recognized him was that he was one of only two white people in the pic.

[JTA]

Dang.

General Lee From “Dukes of Hazzard” Losing Its Confederate Flag

Strom Thurmond’s son (State Sen. Paul Thurmond) calls for Confederate flag to come down

As South Carolina honors victims, Alabama lowers its flags

From Ebay:



Vrede, I know you have some Confederate flags stockpiled somewhere up in your attic. I'll buy them off of you for 5 bucks a dozen. Sound like a deal?

[Mr.B]

"That's redundant."

What ... there are no "gay" rednecks ... ?

You know JTA, you might have hit on something there; they could take down the Confederate flag in Columbia and run that'un up!

One group will get pissed, another will go into spasmodic orgasms...

[JTA]

Dang.

General Lee From “Dukes of Hazzard” Losing Its Confederate Flag

Strom Thurmond’s son (State Sen. Paul Thurmond) calls for Confederate flag to come down

As South Carolina honors victims, Alabama lowers its flags

From Ebay:



Vrede, I know you have some Confederate flags stockpiled somewhere up in your attic. I'll buy them off of you for 5 bucks a dozen. Sound like a deal?

Shit you guys I just thought of something. What if all this confederate flag buying is just because the south has decided to finally rise again, and flags are needed to carry into battle?

[JTA]

"That's redundant."

What ... there are no "gay" rednecks ... ?

The proper term is rainbownecks.

[Vrede too]

That's redundant.

What ... there are no "gay" rednecks ... ?

:?: I said the opposite of that, look up "redundant".

[Mr.B]

That's redundant.

What ... there are no "gay" rednecks ... ?

:?: I said the opposite of that, look up "redundant".

Opps.

[Seth Milner]

WLOS has even reported that "some" (un-named) Black leaders has suggested the Vance Monument be torn down.; state governors are pushing for moves to remove Confederate flags from specialty license plates; and the lists goes on ....

Good grief, all this knee jerking. I checked out this Vance Monument you mention; seems NC once had a governor that owned slaves; big whoopee do about nothing. Lots of past notable figures owned slaves, not that that was a good thing, it's just a part of this country's dark past.

I watched WLOS news hoping to see some more about this, and I did see it; almost to the point of ridiculousness. The story this time was a building move to rename Vance Hall, a building on the campus of UNC-A that was named for this heinous former governor. A young black female student being interviewed said "When I first came here, I paid no attention to the name; since I found out who he was, I'm like, totally disgusted". That's "like, totally", the whole story in a nutshell; nobody even notices until somebody gets a far-fetched idea and it spreads like wildfire.

Since the late Mr. Vance is such a hot topic since he owned slaves, and because of this, his name should be obliterated, this country needs to go back and do one hell of a lot of name changing starting with landmarks named after George Washington who was a slave owner.

Let's see, there's George Washington University, the bridge, coins, various hospitals and schools and so on.

I could care less one way or the other whether the rebel flag is removed from sight and/or whether there is a monumental, knee-jerk, reactionary move to rename every honorary landmark or establishment in this country; my stance is that the whole issue is stupid and childish, and really boils down to politicians wishing to gain popularity.

[Seth Milner]

JTA, Seth Milner & Wneglia, have you said your piece on the flag, whatever it is, to your SC government?

What should I have said? I have no piece to say on the flag; it matters not to me whether the flag stays or goes.

Let me ask you, how does that flag being there affect your everyday way of life? Does it hinder your work? Keep you awake at night? If you're married, does it come between you and your spouse? My point is, it's a rag on a pole, get over it. They can run up a rainbow flag if they want to, no hide off my butt.

There's too many fish to be caught to worry about silly crap that doesn't even concern me, and I'm surely not going to waste my time sitting down and writing some protest letter.

[JTA]

JTA, Seth Milner & Wneglia, have you said your piece on the flag, whatever it is, to your SC government?

What should I have said? I have no piece to say on the flag; it matters not to me whether the flag stays or goes.

Let me ask you, how does that flag being there affect your everyday way of life? Does it hinder your work? Keep you awake at night? If you're married, does it come between you and your spouse? My point is, it's a rag on a pole, get over it. They can run up a rainbow flag if they want to, no hide off my butt.

There's too many fish to be caught to worry about silly crap that doesn't even concern me, and I'm surely not going to waste my time sitting down and writing some protest letter.

Ebay, amazon, and Google shopping have removed confederate flags from their search results. Apple supposedly pulled all civil war games from their online store because they feature confederate flags, although I can't confirm for sure. Only saw one source for that that I'm unfamiliar with. But if that's the case then stuff is getting a little knee jerk ridiculous. Bottom line for businesses though is the bottom line, so I can't blame them.

I kinda feel like this has completely overshadowed the shooting in Charleston.

[O Really]

A part of the problem is, too many people don't want to dig into the details and want a one-size-fits-all solution to everything. Anybody owned slaves? Dump them. I don't find that reasonable. But statues and buildings should be named in recognition of someone who should be honored and remembered in the future as someone worthy of admiration. Zebulon Vance's family may have owned slaves, but his life - including work during the Confederacy - was nowhere close to that of, for example, Bedford Forrest, the first Grand Wizard of the KKK. Vance did not continue to fight on the side of racism, instead focusing on issues like education. I think if the only thing a person did was to be a leader of a failed treasonous rebellion that cost a generation of young men and countless economic and family losses, they don't deserve to have a fence post named for them. But if you can look at their life in the context that it was then - not now - and find that despite being on the losing side of a rebellion that they accomplished much worthy of honor, then build the monument.

[O Really]

I kinda feel like this has completely overshadowed the shooting in Charleston.

I don't think so. I think the families of those shot would be comforted and strengthened knowing that these shootings would never be seen as just one more ho-hum in a long line of violence and that tangible and permanent changes have occurred.

[JTA]

A part of the problem is, too many people don't want to dig into the details and want a one-size-fits-all solution to everything. Anybody owned slaves? Dump them. I don't find that reasonable. But statues and buildings should be named in recognition of someone who should be honored and remembered in the future as someone worthy of admiration. Zebulon Vance's family may have owned slaves, but his life - including work during the Confederacy - was nowhere close to that of, for example, Bedford Forrest, the first Grand Wizard of the KKK. Vance did not continue to fight on the side of racism, instead focusing on issues like education. I think if the only thing a person did was to be a leader of a failed treasonous rebellion that cost a generation of young men and countless economic and family losses, they don't deserve to have a fence post named for them. But if you can look at their life in the context that it was then - not now - and find that despite being on the losing side of a rebellion that they accomplished much worthy of honor, then build the monument.

Well put.

[Seth Milner]

I kinda feel like this has completely overshadowed the shooting in Charleston.

I don't think so. I think the families of those shot would be comforted and strengthened knowing that these shootings would never be seen as just one more ho-hum in a long line of violence and that tangible and permanent changes have occurred.

I agree with you JTA. This kid kills people while embracing the rebel flag and other hate ideologies and suddenly there's a mad rush to do away with the flag. So it's removed from public view; then what? Is that automatically going to make individuals obsessed with hate to immediately stop using this as a symbol of their hate, or quell their hatred? That's my main point. I don't especially care for the rebel flag myself, but all the screaming and fuming is not going to make racism go away, all these businesses are doing by refusing to sell anything connected to the Confederacy, is a misguided move that they hope will increase their business just as politicians are hoping to boost their popularity.

The whole affair is knee-jerk.

[O Really]

No, it doesn't make hate go away, and not even the hate groups. But it does help to make expression of that particular type of racism less socially acceptable. If a guy with a Confederate flag on his truck is no longer seen so much "good ol' boy" as "racism symbol" then - fair or not - it reduces the idea that it's socially OK. Still legal, of course, just as flying the swastika is legal as a form of protected speech, but not something that will continue to be acceptable.

[JTA]

I kinda feel like this has completely overshadowed the shooting in Charleston.

I don't think so. I think the families of those shot would be comforted and strengthened knowing that these shootings would never be seen as just one more ho-hum in a long line of violence and that tangible and permanent changes have occurred.

I agree with you JTA. This kid kills people while embracing the rebel flag and other hate ideologies and suddenly there's a mad rush to do away with the flag. So it's removed from public view; then what? Is that automatically going to make individuals obsessed with hate to immediately stop using this as a symbol of their hate, or quell their hatred? That's my main point. I don't especially care for the rebel flag myself, but all the screaming and fuming is not going to make racism go away, all these businesses are doing by refusing to sell anything connected to the Confederacy, is a misguided move that they hope will increase their business just as politicians are hoping to boost their popularity.

The whole affair is knee-jerk.

I don't think it should be flying over government buildings like the SC state House back in the day. That I disagree with vehemently.

I'm against removing it from national battlefields and parks like fort Sumter though. Last time I was there they had a bunch of union flags from the time period, as well as bunch of different confederate flags flying high on flagpoles.

I guess it kind of makes sense to fly the battle over monuments to confederate war dead. Maybe not on state House grounds though.

Either way whatever. Removing civil war video games because they have confederate flags is lame (if thats even true). Next they're gonna come for my pantera CD's and that's where I draw the line.

[JTA]

I will say this though, my first thought when seeing someone flying the confederate flag on a pickup truck is that they're most likely white trash.

[GoCubsGo]

I will say this though, my first thought when seeing someone flying the confederate flag on a pickup truck is that they're most likely white trash.

I saw your guy yesterday, no lie. Big ol' red Ford F250 with a bigger ol' flag mounted in the bed on Spartnburg Hwy. I felt the pride.