Tree Hugger Thread

[Seth Milner]

[Vrede too]

I visited a huge nasty Manila dump that was very blue tinged thanks to the plastic shopping bags from just one large store.

[Vrede too]

Global marine populations slashed by half since 1970: WWF

[Boatrocker]

Flew in/out of Detroit for business back in March, just as the snow was really starting to melt. Tons of this crap blowing along I-94, along with all the decrepit, abandoned buildings and surprisingly little traffic, made it look like a Mad Max movie.

[rstrong]

Flew in/out of Detroit for business back in March, just as the snow was really starting to melt. Tons of this crap blowing along I-94, along with all the decrepit, abandoned buildings and surprisingly little traffic, made it look like a Mad Max movie.

On the other hand I'm kind of impressed with how quickly the bags break down.

I've tried to avoid throwing out the grocery bags without reusing them. Using them to take lunch into work etc. But there's always more bags from groceries than I need, and so I end up with a couple bags full of more bags.

By two or three years, not in a landfill but in a bag at room temperature, the bags are already useless because they're breaking down, flaking apart when you move them.

[Vrede too]

Though some cellulose plastic biodegrades most bags aren't really breaking down, they're just becoming smaller pieces.

Why aren't you shopping with reused bags? That's how you avoid having more bags from groceries than you need.

[rstrong]

Though some cellulose plastic biodegrades most bags aren't really breaking down, they're just becoming smaller pieces.

Why aren't you shopping with reused bags? That's how you avoid having more bags from groceries than you need.

These days I'm busing, and picking up groceries on my way home from work. (Getting off the bus a few stops short of my home.)

And since I'm busing during rush hour, that means a lot of standing on a crowded, moving bus. And so I avoid having to carry anything.

[Vrede too]

Many of our groceries have bins near the front for leaving/getting clean used plastic bags. I've wondered if they somehow recycle the excess. Kudos for the bus riding, that does more than bag reduction.

"In the spirit of Seth Milner's signature, UNLESS explicitly stated, none of my posts are insulting or sarcastic."

Translation: Obvious conclusions forbidden.

[O Really]

I use a canvas bag - way superior in all aspects to paper or plastic.

[Vrede too]

Same here, and reused plastic for produce and things that might leak, but that doesn't work with rstrong's desire to not carry empty bags on the bus.

[Wneglia]

Tree Hugging Goats

For Vrede

[Wneglia]

COWSPIRACY



Our planet is at steak

[Vrede too]

:?: :?: :?:

This trailer is BS. I get comms from green groups all the time about the impacts of animal agriculture. Here are pages from the websites of 4 of the groups that are supposedly part of the "Cowspiracy".

http://www.nrdc.org/food/default.asp
https://search.sierraclub.org/search?si ... =30&q=cows
http://www.ran.org/search-results?q=cows&search-btn=
http://www.greenpeace.org/international ... /?all=cows

[rstrong]

COWSPIRACY

Our planet is at steak

There's some truth there, but there's also a whole of of BS.

First, the whole world ain't Kansas. On my grandparents' farms - in the interlake region of Manitoba and in eastern Ontario - there was plenty of land that was unsuitable for crops. Raising cattle did not take away land that would otherwise be used for crops. And so several of their related claims don't hold up either.

Second, the deforestation rate is for South America. But here in the US and Canada, the vast majority of our meat comes from.... the US and Canada. We've had NEGATIVE deforestation for agriculture since the 1920s. (Thought more recently we've started losing forest land to urbanization.)

Third, the water use claim doesn't hold water unless you're raising cattle in a desert. Here in Manitoba you dig a shallow dug-out, and your cattle have water. In both Manitoba and in eastern Ontario you can use well water and never have to worry about pumping the well or aquifer dry. (To understand how annoying this claim is, try living on the prairie and having to pay a fortune in electrical costs to keep sump pumps running non-stop for four months of the year - and on and off the rest of the year - to GET RID of water.)

Yeah, there are places that you shouldn't grow cattle. THAT should be the point here. But with that level of dishonesty, they're avoiding if not obfuscating that point.

[rstrong]

On my grandparents' farms - in the interlake region of Manitoba and in eastern Ontario - there was plenty of land that was unsuitable for crops. Raising cattle did not take away land that would otherwise be used for crops.

Also, every year my grandparents were one hail storm or drought away from losing their crops. Having cattle and chickens was insurance against this.

Sooner or later we'll have another Krakatoa eruption, another year without a summer. Livestock are good insurance against this too, at least for the first year.

[Vrede too]

Rabbits are tasty, as are goats, and both are more sustainable than cows.

[rstrong]

Rabbits are tasty, as are goats, and both are more sustainable than cows.

Goats, perhaps. But I'm not so sure about rabbits.

When your crop gets wiped out by a storm, you can still bale it and feed it to your cattle for the next year. I don't think rabbits will survive on hay. A few months after losing your crops, you'd have a hard time rounding up food for enough rabbits to replace the cattle.

[Vrede too]

Rabbits are herbivores that feed by grazing on grass, forbs, and leafy weeds.

I'm pretty sure they'd do fine on anything that's adequate for cows.

[rstrong]

Rabbits are herbivores that feed by grazing on grass, forbs, and leafy weeds.

I'm pretty sure they'd do fine on anything that's adequate for cows.

Sure. But if you're raising them, you're keeping them in pens. Otherwise they're eating your garden. And so you'd still need to be rounding up food for them.

[Vrede too]

No more so than the baled hay you mention for cows, and I'm pretty sure that the hay to meat conversion is more efficient than for cows. Nice try, though.