Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

[rstrong]

Retire the old ones. Build new, far safer ones.

The Fukushima reactors are 50 years old, from a design older than that. Cut power, and they melt down. Newer designs are such that gravity and heat alone will keep the coolant circulating if power is cut. And shutoff rods held above the reactor by electromagnets, that drop under gravity into the core to end criticality when power is cut.

And they had no outer containment building - the big cement dome seen on most US reactors designed to contain the steam explosion that tore apart the Fukushima reactor buildings. Canadian reactors tend to also have another huge dome next to them - designed to turn the steam back into water with a spray of cold water.

The situation is kind of like sticking with car designs from the early 1960s, and not going with newer, safer designs because we don't like the safety of the 1960s designs.

[Vrede too]

I think we have 30 or so reactors with the exact same design.

It wasn't just the reactors that failed, the spent fuel pools did, too.

The economics just aren't there without massive subsidies and liability limits that no other energy sources enjoy. Even then, the new construction industry is nearly dead. Plus, we've yet to figure out waste disposal or its ultimate costs. We will move towards conservation, solar, wind and other alternatives, it's just a matter of how much time and money we waste along the way.

[rstrong]

I think we have 30 or so reactors with the exact same design.
At the time of the Chernobyl meltdown, American had four reactors without outer containment buildings. There were used for fueling nuclear weapons, so they were exempt from the usual safety rules. Dunno how many there are now, but it'll be less.

It wasn't just the reactors that failed, the spent fuel pools did, too.
Yup. If humans were to suddenly vanish from the face of the earth, it's likely that every single commercial reactor on the planet would do a safe, orderly shutdown.

Weeks after power disappears, the spent fuel pools near each reactor evaporate uncovering the spent fuel, which burns on contact with air and renders the safe shutdown irrelevant.

The economics just aren't there without massive subsidies and liability limits that no other energy sources enjoy. Even then, the new construction industry is nearly dead.
There are places where the case can be made for nuclear. Just not as many as the industry might like.

Plus, we've yet to figure out waste disposal or its ultimate costs.
Safely disposing of the spent fuel is less a technical problem than a "not in my back yard" problem. We'll have to overcome that regardless - if I understand correctly, most radioactive waste these days is from medical waste.

There's also the nasty poisonous sludge from the stack scrubbers of a coal power plant. Nuclear waste is more dangerous, but there's so much *less* of it that it is much less of a problem per unit of power.

[Vrede too]

I think we have 30 or so reactors with the exact same design.

At the time of the Chernobyl meltdown, American had four reactors without outer containment buildings. There were used for fueling nuclear weapons, so they were exempt from the usual safety rules. Dunno how many there are now, but it'll be less.

I meant the reactor design, itself. The efficacy of the containment buildings in a Fukushima-type event is largely speculative.

It wasn't just the reactors that failed, the spent fuel pools did, too.

Yup. If humans were to suddenly vanish from the face of the earth, it's likely that every single commercial reactor on the planet would do a safe, orderly shutdown.

Weeks after power disappears, the spent fuel pools near each reactor evaporate uncovering the spent fuel, which burns on contact with air and renders the safe shutdown irrelevant.

The economics just aren't there without massive subsidies and liability limits that no other energy sources enjoy. Even then, the new construction industry is nearly dead.

There are places where the case can be made for nuclear. Just not as many as the industry might like.

Without massive subsidies and liability limits?

Plus, we've yet to figure out waste disposal or its ultimate costs.

Safely disposing of the spent fuel is less a technical problem than a "not in my back yard" problem.

Not entirely, The failure at WIPP and new geologic/hydrologic discoveries at Yucca Mountain mean no safe disposal here yet and no credible estimate on the ultimate costs.

Current controversy: Ontario Power Generation plans to bury radioactive nuclear waste right beside Lake Huron

We'll have to overcome that regardless - if I understand correctly, most radioactive waste these days is from medical waste.

New creation possibly, I don't know, but there's a massive power/weapons backlog.

There's also the nasty poisonous sludge from the stack scrubbers of a coal power plant. Nuclear waste is more dangerous, but there's so much *less* of it that it is much less of a problem per unit of power.

Less in volume, but "more dangerous" has to include duration of lethality and duration of resources needed to monitor and protect.

[Vrede too]

People are rallying around a Burger King ad after the Brussels terrorist attacks



Je suis Ankara and Brussels.

[Vrede too]

The economics just aren't there without massive subsidies and liability limits that no other energy sources enjoy. Even then, the new construction industry is nearly dead.

There are places where the case can be made for nuclear. Just not as many as the industry might like.

Without massive subsidies and liability limits?

Plus, we've yet to figure out waste disposal or its ultimate costs.

Safely disposing of the spent fuel is less a technical problem than a "not in my back yard" problem.

Not entirely, The failure at WIPP and new geologic/hydrologic discoveries at Yucca Mountain mean no safe disposal here yet and no credible estimate on the ultimate costs.

Current controversy: Ontario Power Generation plans to bury radioactive nuclear waste right beside Lake Huron

I don't have a decent link but Ontario is planning on shipping 100 truckloads of highly radioactive liquid waste through NC to the Savannah River site in SC.

http://www.undergroundsunshine.com/

What will Canada do with its enormous stockpile of deadly radioactive waste? Currently, many small communities throughout Ontario are considering burying it underneath their boarders and close to Lake Huron and Lake Superior. When local residents learn about this plan, it sets off a firestorm between those who fear the risks and those who embrace the opportunity.

Watch the film on demand through Vimeo On Demand.

Take action to stop the Great Lakes nuclear waste dump!

... Write to Canada's Prime Minister and Environment Minister, respectively: Justin.Trudeau@parl.gc.ca & Catherine.McKenna@parl.gc.ca. (yes, even if you are American!)

Urge them to decide NO! on Ontario Power Generation's proposed Deep Geologic Repository for radioactive waste on the Great Lakes shore!

Also visit the website of Stop the Great Lakes Nuclear Dump.

There you can watch a powerful three minute video, see the map of 184 resolutions from municipalities across the Great Lakes Basin passed in opposition to the dump (is your town on there yet?!), and sign their petition.

And you can contact your two U.S. Senators, and your U.S. Representative, and urge they support S. 2026 and H.R. 3483. You can also contact President Obama, and urge he launch a comprehensive review of the DGR, by activating the U.S.-Canadian International Joint Commission:

Contact President Obama, to urge him to order Secretary of State John Kerry to activate the U.S.-Canadian International Joint Commission (IJC), to conduct a comprehensive review of the DGR’s risks to the Great Lakes.

Americans can also contact their two U.S. Senators, and U.S. Representative (get patched through to their offices via the U.S. Capitol Switchboard at 202-224-3121), and urge them to co-sponsor U.S. Senate and House legislation, the “Stop Nuclear Waste by Our Lakes Act,” (S. 2026 in the U.S. Senate, and H.R. 3483 in the U.S. House) introduced by U.S. Sens. Stabenow and Peters, and U.S. Rep. Kildee (Democrats from Michigan). The “Stop Nuclear Waste by Our Lakes Act” (S. 2026 and H.R. 3483) will invoke the 1909 Boundary Waters Treaty, and mandate that the IJC undertake a comprehensive review of the DGR proposal.

Update on February 18, 2016 by admin

Thankfully, Canadian Environment Minister Catherine McKenna, has indefinitely postponed her decision on the DGR. However, all those actions above are still needed! Act today! We must keep the pressure on, and nip the DUD in the bud, once and for all!

[Vrede too]

Sorry it's your state again, billy.pilgrim and O Really.

Je suis Florida homosexuels.

So far, it sounds like the shooter was an American gunhugging, homophobic believer. If we weren't so PC we'd kick all the ammosexual fundy bigots out.

[Wneglia]

Sorry it's your state again, billy.pilgrim and O Really.

Je suis Florida homosexuels.

So far, it sounds like the shooter was an American gunhugging, homophobic believer. If we weren't so PC we'd kick all the ammosexual fundy bigots out.

He was an Isil inspired terrorist, plain and simple, and if homophobic, likely learned it from his 'religion'.

[JTA]

Sorry it's your state again, billy.pilgrim and O Really.

Je suis Florida homosexuels.

So far, it sounds like the shooter was an American gunhugging, homophobic believer. If we weren't so PC we'd kick all the ammosexual fundy bigots out.

He was an Isil inspired terrorist, plain and simple, and if homophobic, likely learned it from his 'religion'.

Reddit's r/news subreddit went full on PC mode when these details emerged.

That being said, I'm going to personally await more details before jumping to too many conclusions.

[JTA]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orland ... er-n590496

The gunman who opened fire at a gay nightclub in Florida early Sunday, shooting over 100 people, had called 911 moments before to pledge allegiance to the leader of ISIS, law enforcement sources told NBC News.

Shooter Omar Mateen, 29, appeared to be a follower of ISIS propaganda and referenced the Tsarnaev brothers, who carried out the Boston Marathon bombings in 2013, at the scene, sources said.

oh?

[Vrede too]

He was an Isil inspired terrorist, plain and simple, and if homophobic, likely learned it from his 'religion'.

Could very well be, but one phone call in the midst of mass murder hardly confirms "Inspired".

"if homophobic"? If?

"likely learned it from his 'religion'." Fixed now, after all he was an American southerner.

Funny how you conveniently settle on one aspect when your own link's headline IDs two distinct ones:

America's most deadly mass shooter, 29, called 911 to pledge allegiance to ISIS before shooting dead 50 in Orlando gay nightclub as his father reveals 'he got angry when he saw men kiss'

For all we know at this point, along with his being an unstable domestic abuser, the shooter was motivated by his homophobia while Islamic radicalism, which there's scant evidence for in his history so far, is just an excuse. Why do you believe without question what mass murderers say?

I still think we should exercise an abundance of caution and kick all ammosexual fundy bigots out.

[JTA]

Based on the info I've seen, I personally think his homophobia was more so to blame than him being Muslim.

Now, it's quite possible his Islamic upbringing had a little something to do with him being homophobic. But a lot of Christians are homophobes too.

Wahhabi Islam is a scourge on humanity.

[Vrede too]

Yep, all we know for sure at this point is that he was an American with easy access to guns that targeted a gay nightclub.

My own speculation: Why would a Christian-hating (and no other reason) Muslim radical specifically choose as his victims societal pariahs that con Christians also hate?

[JTA]

Yep, all we know for sure at this point is that he was an American with easy access to guns.

His family comes out and apologizes and basically said he was an asshole that just hated gays. The dude may have just been so over the top angsty with his hatred of gays and his anger at whatever else that he decided to claim allegiance to ISIS just prior to murdering those people.

[Vrede too]

I added, "that targeted a gay nightclub," to the sentence while you were composing, plus a question.

He's also reported to have been a violent misogynist. Sounds more like a Florida Bubba than anything else to me at this point.

[Wneglia]

Maybe he was demonstrating his compassion

[JTA]

I added, "that targeted a gay nightclub," to the sentence while you were composing, plus a question.

He's also reported to have been a violent misogynist. Sounds more like a Florida Bubba than anything else to me at this point.

Maybe.

If so, in that case a Florida bubba driven by radical Islam?

[JTA]

I guess what I'm getting at is having guns and liking guns doesn't make someone go out and shoot up a gay bar. Being a Florida bubba and doing bubba things, like hunting, fishing, drinking bud light, mudding, and shooting guns doesn't mean you hate gays and will go out and shoot up a night club.

Being a psychopath and having mental problems probably will though. Or being indoctrinated from a young age that gays are evil and need to die. Not saying the shooter was indoctrinated to think this way, but it does sound like he was a psychopath that also just so happened to hate gays. If he was a white dude he'd probably latch onto some Neo-Nazi ideology, or maybe some Christian fundamentalism to channel his anger.

[Vrede too]

Our easy access to guns and uber-violent culture sure doesn't help.

We have lots of confirmed and possible descriptors - radical Muslim, Floridian, male, wife beater, heavily armed, homophobic, believer in God, American and unstable.

Only those with an agenda will settle on one or exclude others from being the prime reason so early.

[JTA]

Our easy access to guns and uber-violent culture sure doesn't help.

I've played a lot of violent video games. I've watched a lot of violent movies. I listen to a lot angry sounding heavy metal. I played "war" as a kid. I used to love watching war documentaries and reading about them as well. Me and my bro used to beat the shit out of each other with sticks and wrestle for fun. I shot a lot of guns and owned a BB gun when I was young. I own several firearms now. I love moshing to heavy metal. Mosh pits are pretty violent.

But I know harming others because I disagree with them is wrong because I learned empathy growing up.

I think dehumanization of those you deem your foes is another major cause. You view gays or jews or blacks or whatever as less than human, it's easier to not feel empathy.