The LEO thread

[O Really]

<gasp> I agree with Seth.

[Seth Milner]

I hate the smell of ammonia . . .

[billy.pilgrim]

I don't.

No matter who his victims were, cops or civilians, whites or Blacks; if the only way a killer is going to be stopped because he probably has a suicide by cop mentality, then I say blow his ass into the next week; give him his wish. PTSD or not, he must be stopped.

"Executed" means planned; this guy had to be stopped. Period.

Was he still shooting? I was under the impression he was hiding.

And who makes the decision to use robotic bombs?
Does making the decision get easier with time and use?
Do you expand the use of robotic bombs to potential dangerous situations?

[Seth Milner]

Stopped 52 times by police: Was it racial profiling?



Published July 09, 2016 • Associated Press

This 2014 photo provided by Dewanda Harris shows Philando Castile of St. Paul, Minn., posing for a photo while attending a family funeral in St. Paul. "Officials say" Castile was fatally shot by police in Falcon Heights, Minn., Wednesday, July 6, 2016, while inside a car with a woman and a child. (Dewanda Harris via AP) (The Associated Press)

MINNEAPOLIS – Philando Castile had been pulled over at least 52 times in recent years in and around the Twin Cities and given citations for minor offenses including speeding and driving without a muffler.

He was assessed at least $6,588 in fines and fees, although court records show more than half of the total 86 violations were dismissed.

Was Castile an especially bad driver or just unlucky? Or was he targeted by officers who single out black motorists like him for such stops?

The answer may never be known, but Castile's stop for a broken tail light Wednesday ended with him fatally shot by a suburban St. Paul police officer and his girlfriend livestreaming the chilling aftermath. The shooting has added a new impetus to a national debate on racial profiling.

"Officials say . . ." I say bullshit! Video don't lie. However, there's still some nagging thoughts here. The cop surely called in his tag number before the stop which would have revealed his numerous arrests, and in most states that he was a licensed CW carrier. Although most charges against him were dropped, some obviously weren't. How did he obtain a CWC permit? And, I believe, the cop knew he had a permitted weapon and got his bowels in an uproar because HE WAS BLACK!!!.

I hold nothing but admiration for our peace officers who do their job as LEO training dictates; but these gung-ho, entitled assholes has got to be weeded out. The unfortunate part is how they're being weeded out.

[Seth Milner]

I don't.

No matter who his victims were, cops or civilians, whites or Blacks; if the only way a killer is going to be stopped because he probably has a suicide by cop mentality, then I say blow his ass into the next week; give him his wish. PTSD or not, he must be stopped.
"Executed" means planned; this guy had to be stopped. Period.

Was he still shooting? I was under the impression he was hiding.
Not certain, but I think so.

And who makes the decision to use robotic bombs?
It had to be a judgment call by a superior officer.
Not being facetious, but that was not the time for a committee meeting.

Does making the decision get easier with time and use?
The use of deadly force to defuse a situation such as this is never an easy decision, but given the circumstances in this case, he had to be stopped at all costs. Had the shooter been able to disable the robot, or set off it's charges with a well-aimed shot, the loss of the robot, despite it's cost in dollars is nothing compared to one human life. Having to shoot to kill can never be an easy decision.

Do you expand the use of robotic bombs to potential dangerous situations?
It's never been done before, billy, that I'm aware of; however the use of robots in a "holed-up fugitive" situation has been brought out as a selling point for the robots by their manufacturers.

The world we live in is not getting any better. Although a major part of the problem, the availability of guns is NOT the biggest issue. Citizens of many countries live where they have strict gun laws; or where their citizens cannot afford guns, they use other deadly weapons to kill, rob, rape, and plunder. Lucky for our criminals they're not killed on the spot unless they put themselves in a confrontation.

[billy.pilgrim]

I don't.

No matter who his victims were, cops or civilians, whites or Blacks; if the only way a killer is going to be stopped because he probably has a suicide by cop mentality, then I say blow his ass into the next week; give him his wish. PTSD or not, he must be stopped.
"Executed" means planned; this guy had to be stopped. Period.

Was he still shooting? I was under the impression he was hiding.
Not certain, but I think so.

And who makes the decision to use robotic bombs?
It had to be a judgment call by a superior officer.
Not being facetious, but that was not the time for a committee meeting.

Does making the decision get easier with time and use?
The use of deadly force to defuse a situation such as this is never an easy decision, but given the circumstances in this case, he had to be stopped at all costs. Had the shooter been able to disable the robot, or set off it's charges with a well-aimed shot, the loss of the robot, despite it's cost in dollars is nothing compared to one human life. Having to shoot to kill can never be an easy decision.

Do you expand the use of robotic bombs to potential dangerous situations?
It's never been done before, billy, that I'm aware of; however the use of robots in a "holed-up fugitive" situation has been brought out as a selling point for the robots by their manufacturers.

The world we live in is not getting any better. Although a major part of the problem, the availability of guns is NOT the biggest issue. Citizens of many countries live where they have strict gun laws; or where their citizens cannot afford guns, they use other deadly weapons to kill, rob, rape, and plunder. Lucky for our criminals they're not killed on the spot unless they put themselves in a confrontation.

Not sure at all that the robot had to be equipped with lethal force.

Couldn't the robot have delivered a flash bang or some other less than lethal force. As I understand the event, it seems like an execution.

[Seth Milner]

Not sure at all that the robot had to be equipped with lethal force.
Couldn't the robot have delivered a flash bang or some other less than lethal force. As I understand the event, it seems like an execution.

I believe, in this case, a decision was made that the shooter was not going to give up without taking more victims with him. Generally people who go on a shooting spree fully expect to be killed, and some warped ideology or religious belief leads them to believe they are doing the right thing by killing numbers of people.

Babbling back and forth on a bullhorn has never caused a fanatic to surrender peacefully, and again, a decision to take out the shooter at all costs had to be made regardless of what method was employed. The robot prevented further police deaths, and quite possibly prevented the very real possibility of a hostage taking situation.

The police were right to contain and eliminate the threat.

[Vrede too]

I'm not gonna argue about Dallas. He took out 12 cops and said he had bombs. If there's ever case where this might be okay and predictable, this is it.

But, the future implications for policy and practice are worth discussing. Will they used too readily, what happens if things go wrong, other weapons and tactics from Iraq and Afghanistan, robots with guns, sniper drones, mini drones that explode by a head . . . ?

[Seth Milner]

. . .But, the future implications for policy and practice are worth discussing. Will they used too readily, what happens if things go wrong, other weapons and tactics from Iraq and Afghanistan, robots with guns, sniper drones, mini drones that explode by a head?

Hard to visualize about future conflicts, but in the world's current conflicts, those who behead prisoners, torture, rape women, young boys and girls, kill with no second thought, and are willing to blow themselves up in order to kill as many as they can take with them, deserve any weaponry we can throw at them. For sure, if they had the same advancements in weaponry as we do, they'd damn sure use it against us.

We can sit comfortably in our homes watching TV and decry the tactics used in domestic and foreign terrorism, but I for one, am thankful that we have the means to combat the threats when they do arise.

[Vrede too]

Haywood County Deputy suspended after Facebook post; Sheriff calls for unity

[Seth Milner]

I'll just be damned! Here we go again!

Houston police shoot dead a black man pointing gun in street
Letitia Stein and Leslie Adler -- Thomson-Reuters -- Jul 10th 2016 6:15AM

July 9 (Reuters) - Two Houston police officers fatally shot an African-American man who pointed a gun at them despite their commands that he lower his weapon, authorities said on Saturday, two days after five Dallas policemen were slain by a black military veteran.

The two Houston officers, both Hispanic, encountered a man standing in the middle of a street with a revolver around 12:40 a.m. while on a routine patrol, police spokeswoman Jodi Silva said.

The officers exited their patrol vehicle to speak to the man, who initially had the firearm pointed to the sky. The officers ordered him to lower the weapon, Silva said.

"He instead deliberately and slowly lowers his arm and allows it to come to a stop at his waist," Silva said. "Now the gun is pointed directly at officers."
Fearing for their safety and for nearby witnesses, both officers discharged their weapons, striking the man, she said. The man's motive remains unknown.

The suspect, who did not fire his gun, died at the scene. His identity was not immediately released.
The incident unfolded after police came under fire in at least three states on Thursday and Friday, as protests over police use of force against black people escalated around the country.

[Vrede too]

Off-duty police officer fatally shoots home intruder who had argued with him about Black Lives Matter on Facebook

Not that I question that it was a "good shoot" an iota at this point, but if you're a police officer don't get into Facebook arguments with anyone, especially folks you know to be bipolar. Just block them.

[Seth Milner]

I don't know; call me paranoid or something. I can't help but feel a cold wind blowing that gives me cold chills. What with these "protest" demonstrations in the streets of America that are nothing more than an opportunity for more violence, there's a very real possibility of a civil war between the races.
Where's it going to end? How's it going to end? Somebody's going to say "gun control" or something to that effect; but guns aren't the only available weapons . . .

[JTA]

Off-duty police officer fatally shoots home intruder who had argued with him about Black Lives Matter on Facebook

Not that I question that it was a "good shoot" an iota at this point, but if you're a police officer don't get into Facebook arguments with anyone, especially folks you know to be bipolar. Just block them.

It's scary how easy it is to find info about anyone on Facebook given a little info. I've got one, but it's super locked down so you can't see anything. I still need change my name to something fake before I start a job search. A lot of people keep theirs wide open so you can see every tidbit of information about them, and all of the stuff they share and write. Not good!

[JTA]

:violent: I

I don't know; call me paranoid or something. I can't help but feel a cold wind blowing that gives me cold chills. What with these "protest" demonstrations in the streets of America that are nothing more than an opportunity for more violence, there's a very real possibility of a civil war between the races.
Where's it going to end? How's it going to end? Somebody's going to say "gun control" or something to that effect; but guns aren't the only available weapons . . .

Alternatively , it could be the media fanning the flames trying to get even more ratings. My day to day life has remained largely unchanged . There was a BLM protest in Greenville the other night when I was out drinking. I didn't even know.

[Vrede too]

It's scary how easy it is to find info about anyone on Facebook given a little info. I've got one, but it's super locked down so you can't see anything. I still need change my name to something fake before I start a job search. A lot of people keep theirs wide open so you can see every tidbit of information about them, and all of the stuff they share and write. Not good!

This is even dumber on the cop's part given that he and the guy he shot knew each other in the real world and that by being an "out" cop on Facebook he's representing his department and cops in general.

[Vrede too]

I don't know; call me paranoid or something.

Okay.

I can't help but feel a cold wind blowing that gives me cold chills. What with these "protest" demonstrations in the streets of America that are nothing more than an opportunity for more violence,

Ignorance or lie. Either way, an expression of the fear you frequently display.

there's a very real possibility of a civil war between the races.

Nope, mostly peaceful protest against white oppression, with the occasional terrorist thrown in.

Where's it going to end? How's it going to end? Somebody's going to say "gun control" or something to that effect; but guns aren't the only available weapons . . .

There are reasons why they're the weapon of choice. We can make that harder, which will make the terrorism harder to pull off.

[Seth Milner]

:violent: I

I don't know; call me paranoid or something. I can't help but feel a cold wind blowing that gives me cold chills. What with these "protest" demonstrations in the streets of America that are nothing more than an opportunity for more violence, there's a very real possibility of a civil war between the races.
Where's it going to end? How's it going to end? Somebody's going to say "gun control" or something to that effect; but guns aren't the only available weapons . . .

Alternatively , it could be the media fanning the flames trying to get even more ratings. My day to day life has remained largely unchanged . There was a BLM protest in Greenville the other night when I was out drinking. I didn't even know.

The media certainly is in a position to inspire as it sells more papers or captures more viewers; however I believe this article holds more water. Currently, my life too is still unchanged, the fish still bite sometimes, and I have to go to Greenville once a week; so until the call to arms sounds, it's still a ho-hum day.

[O Really]

"Civil war between races"?? Let's see. Total population is maybe 12% black. Unlikely many non-black Hispanics would join with the blacks, but let's say some do. Total population on the "black" side might be 20%. Even if 100% of those joined the "rebels" they're not exactly distributed very well to engage in much of a war. And a lot of them aren't exactly street warrior types. Mississippi has the highest percentage of blacks, as well as the highest percentage of obesity. I don't know, but I suspect some of that overlaps. So the "white" side has most of the military, most of the police, most of the civilian weaponry, geographical advantage, economic advantage, and besides, it's unlikely current black leaders are as stupid as the South Carolina hotheads in 1861.

But there are a lot of pissed off people out there, and for good reason. Some will certainly be willing to man the barricades, despite how that worked out in France.

[Seth Milner]

I don't know; call me paranoid or something.
Okay.
Now, what's your excuse?

I can't help but feel a cold wind blowing that gives me cold chills. What with these "protest" demonstrations in the streets of America that are nothing more than an opportunity for more violence,
Ignorance or lie. Either way, an expression of the fear you frequently display.
I'll drop the cold chills parts; your stupidicity just superseded the cold wind. So you think it's a lie that protesters are pouring into the streets, not only to protest, but as an opportunity for unbridled civil disorder? Are you so naive', you think their only purpose is to march along holding hands and singing "We shall overcome"?

there's a very real possibility of a civil war between the races.
Nope, mostly peaceful protest against white oppression, with the occasional terrorist thrown in.
. . . and you are 100% absolutely certain that the signs are wrong; and some poor, underprivileged, disillusioned souls are the only cause of disobedience, because only the liberal-minded know without a doubt, the mind of a "terrorist"? You should have made a bid for public office; this country really needs the talents of those like you!

Where's it going to end? How's it going to end? Somebody's going to say "gun control" or something to that effect; but guns aren't the only available weapons . . .
There are reasons why they're the weapon of choice. We can make that harder, which will make the terrorism harder to pull off
Since "WE" have all the brilliant answers, tell us how in hell will making weapons harder to get, going to make "terrorism harder to pull off"? All the liberals can spew about is about those on no fly lists, those with criminal or violence related records, so on and so forth.

Tell us about this guy in Dallas who had less than a spotless military record, yet no criminal record; tell us about the adrenaline-charged cops that shoot first and ask questions later --- are we going to disarm cops?

Guns are out there, my friend, and as long as money is available to buy them, no amount of legislation or lip service is going to rid the world of them. So I repeat my questions: Where's it going to end? How's it going to end? You seem to have the answers, let's hear 'em without your jumping through hoops and blowing smoke out your ass.