The LEO thread

[O Really]

I believe seth may have just described ISIS

I believe he did - or at least professed his support for Sharia Law.

[JTA]

To be honest, if someone did something heinous to someone dear to me, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't want to seek vengeance. It's human nature. That being said, I recognize that that's an emotional response not governed by reason. We're still animals deep down inside and I think It's important to be self aware of such things.

Thethe state on the other hand shouldn't be governed by emotional responses. That's how we end up with lynch mobs and the possibility of innocent people losing their lives.


Example being the new president if the Phillipines calling on citizens to murder drug dealers, resulting in the deaths of nearly 1800 people, some of which im sure were innocent.

[Seth Milner]

Its not the state's duty to seek vengeance.
I believe you're confusing vengeance with punishment.

The state ought to do whatever is most rational, which is removing the offending individual from society in order to protect others by meting out justice. Justice =/= vengeance.
So that the taxpayer can pay full support for his existence during his time of incarceration or the rest of his life?

[JTA]

Its not the state's duty to seek vengeance.
I believe you're confusing vengeance with punishment.

The state ought to do whatever is most rational, which is removing the offending individual from society in order to protect others by meting out justice. Justice =/= vengeance.
So that the taxpayer can pay full support for his existence during his time of incarceration or the rest of his life?

I think Vrede provided a source for me a while back, but it's cheaper to jail an inmate for the rest of their life than it is to execute them. I'll see if I can find it as well.

Now, you may argue that we could simply sink a bullet in their skull and be done with it, but I think it's more complicated than that.

Also, imo, as long as there's even the slightest possibility for an innocent person to be executed, which there's ways going to be that possibility, I'll always stand firmly against the death penalty. Saving even just one innocent life is worth it.

[Vrede too]

... Example being the new president if the Phillipines calling on citizens to murder drug dealers, resulting in the deaths of nearly 1800 people, some of which im sure were innocent.

Alleged drug users, too, and I just read that the tally is over 1900 just since Rodrigo Duterte took office on June 30, 2016. This is the kind of society that Seth Milner wants.

[Seth Milner]

People's lives" --- so what about the "people's lives", that a majority of prisoners in our systems, took or shattered because of their being there to begin with?

That "a majority of prisoners in our systems" have taken or shattered other people's lives is a lie, so all of your conclusions deriving from that are stupid ones.
Just because a prisoner didn't kill someone, doesn't mean that someone's life wasn't "shattered". A shattered life can include drug-dealing (for which it's a well-known fact that you advocate) or involving innocents in drug dealings and/or addiction.

Lucky for you lying and stupidity aren't usually illegal, otherwise you would be experiencing the prison system you're so ignorant about.
It's obvious you don't know diddly-shit about prison systems. All you know is what you read about in your True Detective magazines and web-sites; and just because you yourself spent a few nights in jail for your protesting bullshit, you've not had a taste of what inside a prison is. Your stupidity and wannabe superior knowledge far outweigh anything you consider lying, and if that was punishable, you'd land a life sentence.

Most are animals when they go in; many are still animals and can't be or don't want to be reformed.

That "Most are animals when they go in" is a lie, so all of your conclusions deriving from that are stupid ones.
So explain to us in detail how you know what I say is a "lie", and you're not shit-faced stupid. A human being that would wantonly murder and rape an innocent child is not an animal? What the fuck would you call him? A member in good standing of society? Your fucking brain, if you have one is totally messed up.

"can't be or don't want to be reformed" is just you making things up when you're floundering, as usual, and I didn't mention "reformed", anyhow. Rather the point you're cowering from, as usual, is that you want to make the ones that will get out worse for society.
Sure, Mr. Know-it-All, I'm making things up, and I'm floundering. Do you really want a child-rapist-murderer back out in society?

It's not vengeance; it's "reaping what you sow". You commit the crime, you pay for it.
Ummm, that is vengeance. Seth Milner fails English, again.
Vengeance is justice. It depends who's meting it out.

If death penalties for murder and atrocious crimes against another human were boldly carried out, prisons wouldn't be overcrowded.

Support it or not, there's nothing bold about execution. Seth Milner fails English, again.
I suppose a murderer is one brave soul, huh? You're so full of shit, I smell you from here.

That's just you making things up when you're floundering, as usual. There is zero evidence that state killing has a deterrent effect. In fact, states with the death penalty on average have more violence, not less.
So . . . ? The problem is when they take years to carry out the sentence. Money talks.

You can't tell me, and make me believe it, that if a man broke into your home and raped & killed your wife/mother/daughter or outright slaughtered your entire family, that you wouldn't seek vengeance; whether your own, or that which is doled out by the courts.

What I would do or want to do is irrelevant, moron.
Your reply is typical of a bleeding heart idiot. You don't know for a fact what you'd do; but if if you saw what I described, I'm willing to bet the farm you wouldn't be sitting holding hands with that son-of-a bitch singing Kumbayah like you want to give the impression to. You're nothing but a cowardly, sniveling bleeding heart. Own it.

The point you're cowering from, as usual, is that we're discussing what the state should do in the interests of the healthiest society. My victimized self would not care about society.
Yeah, sure. Anyone that believes that lying bullshit . . .

[Seth Milner]

You can't tell me, and make me believe it, that if a man broke into your home and raped & killed your wife/mother/daughter or outright slaughtered your entire family, that you wouldn't seek vengeance; whether your own, or that which is doled out by the courts.

I believe seth may have just described ISIS

I did? ISIS kills wantonly for reasons to suit an ideology. What would you do; or how would you feel, personally, about the above scenario?

[Seth Milner]

I believe seth may have just described ISIS

I believe he did - or at least professed his support for Sharia Law.

Don't be silly; you're parroting Vrede now. He's rubbing off on you.

[Seth Milner]

To be honest, if someone did something heinous to someone dear to me, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't want to seek vengeance. It's human nature. That being said, I recognize that that's an emotional response not governed by reason.
You're correct. Vengeance is an emotional response triggered by another's action against you.

We're still animals deep down inside and I think It's important to be self aware of such things.
Correct again. I believe that's what the Good Book means about turning the other cheek.

The state on the other hand shouldn't be governed by emotional responses.
They're not. They're governed by laws set forth many years ago when it was determined that laws were needed to be passed to protect the lives of the weaker of society.

That's how we end up with lynch mobs and the possibility of innocent people losing their lives.
Lynch mobs are not sanctioned by the state, and many people have been slaughtered by same. Getting back to the point of prisons though, we all know that prisons are FULL of innocent people.


Example being the new president if the Philippines calling on citizens to murder drug dealers, resulting in the deaths of nearly 1800 people, some of which i'm sure were innocent.
Dumb move. To the Vrede's of the world, drug dealers should be allowed to ply their trade.

[Seth Milner]

I think Vrede provided a source for me a while back, but it's cheaper to jail an inmate for the rest of their life than it is to execute them. I'll see if I can find it as well.
That's liberal propaganda bullshit. Consider the cost, for the rest of their life, of health care, three meals a day, clothing, electricity, heat & cooling, water, etc., the cost of three bullets from a firing squad is one helluva lot cheaper, even if you throw in the state possibly having to pay for his/her burial expense.

Now, you may argue that we could simply sink a bullet in their skull and be done with it, but I think it's more complicated than that.
How so? Other than the fact that one bullet might not kill him/her?

Also, imo, as long as there's even the slightest possibility for an innocent person to be executed, which there's ways going to be that possibility, I'll always stand firmly against the death penalty. Saving even just one innocent life is worth it.
That is another propaganda argument of the bleeding heart liberals. I'm not saying that there aren't innocents, but you can't eliminate capital punishment across the board because of that. Guilty murderers have screamed innocence ever since the dawn of imprisonment, some convincingly, and nowadays, some panty-waist judge will find a flaw in one's defense/prosecution proceedings and order them freed, despite their guilt or innocence. It's happened. Unfortunately, the innocent suffer with the guilty. It's not a perfect system out there, but it would do the job of curbing violent crime.

[Seth Milner]

... Example being the new president if the Phillipines calling on citizens to murder drug dealers, resulting in the deaths of nearly 1800 people, some of which im sure were innocent.

Alleged drug users, too, and I just read that the tally is over 1900 just since Rodrigo Duterte took office on June 30, 2016. This is the kind of society that Seth Milner wants.

As opposed to the drugged society you favor?

The government has no business allowing vigilantism.

[Seth Milner]

A four year old crime chart. Yep, that's the ticket.

it's just dishonest stupidity for Seth Milner to say that all violent criminals are "animals".
Seth Milner would be a perjurer if he was under oath and thus is an "animal" by his own definition.

And it's pure moronic stupidity for you to run screaming away that violent criminals aren't animals.

Animal:
noun:
1. the physical, sensual, or carnal nature of human beings...
2. an inhuman person; brutish or beast-like person

By these definitions, you don't think violent criminals fall into this category?
If you don't, you're even stupider than I give you credit for.

[billy.pilgrim]

You can't tell me, and make me believe it, that if a man broke into your home and raped & killed your wife/mother/daughter or outright slaughtered your entire family, that you wouldn't seek vengeance; whether your own, or that which is doled out by the courts.

I believe seth may have just described ISIS

I did? ISIS kills wantonly for reasons to suit an ideology. What would you do; or how would you feel, personally, about the above scenario?

now now seth, there was no ISIS until lil bush invaded their country, gave their jobs to the shia, ran all the trained personnel out of the military and then started kicking down doors and raping their sisters and then poof - sadam's army started looking for a country

[Seth Milner]

now now seth, there was no ISIS until lil bush invaded their country, gave their jobs to the shia, ran all the trained personnel out of the military and then started kicking down doors and raping their sisters and then poof - sadam's army started looking for a country

I wouldn't know about any of that. I wasn't involved, nor did I keep tabs.

[Seth Milner]

Its not the state's duty to seek vengeance.

Let me tell you about vengeance. I promised one individual that if he ever got out of prison where he's living a good life, and I was to run upon him on the street somewhere, and I had my gun, I would blow his brains into the next county. That's vengeance. I can't go into details, but I was told that if I did that, the law would not stop until they caught and punished me however the law dictated. I can live with that. I keep tabs on this person, and one day...

[JTA]

Its not the state's duty to seek vengeance.

Let me tell you about vengeance. I promised one individual that if he ever got out of prison where he's living a good life, and I was to run upon him on the street somewhere, and I had my gun, I would blow his brains into the next county. That's vengeance. I can't go into details, but I was told that if I did that, the law would not stop until they caught and punished me however the law dictated. I can live with that. I keep tabs on this person, and one day...

Fair enough. I don't know what happened to yours, but if something terrible happened to a loved one of mine I guarantee you I'd feel the same way.

[O Really]

Its not the state's duty to seek vengeance.

Let me tell you about vengeance. I promised one individual that if he ever got out of prison where he's living a good life, ...

We all understand personal vengeance. Different subject from the State's Constitutional responsiblity to punish criminal offenders without "cruel and unusual punishment." You wouldn't happen to have an example of "living a good life" would you?

[JTA]

JTA: No to Death Penalty

SM: That is another propaganda argument of the bleeding heart liberals. I'm not saying that there aren't innocents, but you can't eliminate capital punishment across the board because of that. Guilty murderers have screamed innocence ever since the dawn of imprisonment, some convincingly, and nowadays, some panty-waist judge will find a flaw in one's defense/prosecution proceedings and order them freed, despite their guilt or innocence. It's happened. Unfortunately, the innocent suffer with the guilty. It's not a perfect system out there, but it would do the job of curbing violent crime.

I disagree. If even one innocent life is spared then it's worth doing away with. The entire purpose of of the death penalty is to punish those guilty of especially heinous crimes by forever removing them from society so that they may no longer harm an innocent person.

[Vrede too]

... prison where he's living a good life ...

[Vrede too]

That is another propaganda argument of the bleeding heart liberals. I'm not saying that there aren't innocents, but you can't eliminate capital punishment across the board because of that.

That is another propaganda argument of the bloodthirsty cons that have absolute faith in an honest and infallible government. Of course you can eliminate capital punishment across the board. Most nations and several states have done so. The few countries that haven't we would never want to otherwise be in league with.

Guilty murderers have screamed innocence ever since the dawn of imprisonment, some convincingly, and nowadays, some panty-waist judge

Ummm, agree with their decisions or not, panty-waist judges don't overturn prior rulings. Seth Milner fails English, again.

will find a flaw in one's defense/prosecution proceedings and order them freed, despite their guilt or innocence. It's happened.

Bull, those released after years of campaigning and legal efforts have been freed because their innocence was proven or their prosecution was shown to have been massively flawed. Panty-waist Seth Milner just makes up lies when he's floundering.

Unfortunately, the innocent suffer with the guilty. It's not a perfect system out there, but it would do the job of curbing violent crime.

Again, that's just you making things up, as usual. There is zero evidence that state killing has a deterrent effect. In fact, states with the death penalty on average have more violence, not less.