The Religion Thread

[Boatrocker]

I continue to fail to understand how every god seems to be illiterate and can't write their own instruction manuals.

I'm mean EVERY single one of them.... you'd think one could read and write.

It's almost like every religion and every god are man made.

But it's convenient for the shamen.

[Vrede too]

Aren't "salvation is based on faith alone" and "accepting Jesus-uh as your personal savior!" the same thing?

Unlike most faiths that believe that actions and deeds matter, these folks think that professing faith in Jesus is a Get Out of jail Free card that excuses any evil.

In my experience, I included the mandatory public profession (so your peers could judge your sincerity), baptism (ritual bullshit) and tithing a church-approved amount (extortion). But your well-taken point about "faith" being enough without actually going to the trouble to live by Xtian values is accurate.

You may know more about it than me. I don't know whether those things are necessary to stay out of hell or whether they're just necessary to get into and stay in church. I assumed the latter when getting the quiz question supposedly "correct".

[Mr.B]

bumped

[Boatrocker]

Aren't "salvation is based on faith alone" and "accepting Jesus-uh as your personal savior!" the same thing?

Unlike most faiths that believe that actions and deeds matter, these folks think that professing faith in Jesus is a Get Out of jail Free card that excuses any evil.

In my experience, I included the mandatory public profession (so your peers could judge your sincerity), baptism (ritual bullshit) and tithing a church-approved amount (extortion). But your well-taken point about "faith" being enough without actually going to the trouble to live by Xtian values is accurate.

You may know more about it than me. I don't know whether those things are necessary to stay out of hell or whether they're just necessary to get into and stay in church. I assumed the latter when getting the quiz question supposedly "correct".

Well, either way, I suspect the quiz results will go into our permanent records.

[Vrede too]

The quiz doesn't matter, but the discussion interests me. Thanks.

[Mr.B]

bumped

Vrede wrote: "School/parents/peers/Navy, etc. clearly never taught him personal responsibility® when he flubs, poor thing."

School: When I attended school, teachers had the privilege of teaching manners and respect for others; something obviously not taught or not allowed to be taught today. Bullies were introduced to the "board of education"

Parents: Obviously my parents taught me much more than yours did. My parents weren't bullies who projected their traits on us.
I have one brother and three sisters, all are/were successful in their careers.

Peers: My friends and playmates were raised pretty much the same as I.
Those who had less weren't ridiculed and bullied for their status in life, nor for what one had that was better than the others ... you?

U.S. Navy: As Boatrocker will/should tell you, Navy boot camp is nine weeks of training in discipline to superiors and one's self.
Specialized training comes after boot camp. Too bad you didn't serve in the military; perhaps you could have learned how to get along with others and take personal responsibility® for YOUR actions ... and how to be a man, not a pansy forums troll.

(I see you used some of the example I used in the other thread ... you DID see yourself! How Gratifying! )

[billy.pilgrim]

Many radical or ultra-conservatives are adamant about the earth being 6,000 years old ... that's foolish, because of the overwhelming proof of age determination of past earthly events. (BTW, Global warming/cooling are past Earthly events)

MY opinion is that the historical events recorded in the Bible go back approximately 6,000 years ... the Bible begins with "In the beginning, God..." It doesn't say, "Last week, (or yesterday) God..." Therefore, a time frame is not mentioned ... because the writer doesn't know.
He knows WHAT occurred because of Divine Inspiration.

"Any thoughts on fundies demanding full payment from taxpayers, atheists and scientists way above their own meagar tax contribution to subsidize their 6,000 year man and prehistoric animals lived together beliefs. Only answer if you want to"

I'm not certain I know what you're talking about ... enlighten me.

So, you believe that people who believe a more extreme version of what you believe are "foolish"

Isn't there some rule about calling people fools?

[Vrede too]

http://www.blueridgedebate.com/viewtopi ... &start=480

I wonder if the Russians deny Global Warming .... ?

Shut up you dirty lib.

These days one must be careful to ask not just if someone believes the Earth is warming, but also whether s/he understands that human activity is causing it.

.... (BTW, Global warming/cooling are past Earthly events) ...

Point proved.

[Mr.B]

"So, you believe that people who believe a more extreme version of what you believe are "foolish" ... Isn't there some rule about calling people fools?"

Not a "rule"; a warning ... Matthew 5:22 - "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, (vain, empty, worthless ... The Jews used it as a word of contempt) shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

I said their thoughts were foolish; however, there is also this from the Bible ...
"The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works"

Opps.

[k9nanny]

It's almost like every religion and every god are man made.

God used to be a woman. Then, one day, an unusually intelligent man figured out that it takes two to make a baby. He ran with it. He decided God was a man, and it's been downhill since.

Still, deep in his psyche, he is terrified by woman's complicity with nature, and he compensates with macho bravado, and the exclusion of woman from things like leading a church.

Thankfully, we have made some progress, realizing that all humans are created equal.

[Mr.B]

"God used to be a woman."
At least you acknowledge there is a God.

"....one day, an unusually intelligent man figured out that it takes two to make a baby. He ran ..... and it's been downhill since.
Did you just describe the making of a queer?

"Still, deep in his psyche, he is terrified by woman's complicity with nature, and he compensates with macho bravado, and the exclusion of woman from things like leading a church."
Wow! ... that ... that...that's so powerful! I think I'm going to cry ! (May I borrow your soapbox ... ?)

"Thankfully, we have made some progress, realizing that all humans are created equal."
Ahhh ... there's that word ... CREATED! Don't you mean "slithered out of the same swamp muck?" Humans are CREATED equal.

"an unusually intelligent man .... woman..leading ..... " Something akin to "who wears the pants" comes to mind ...

[rstrong]

"an unusually intelligent man .... woman..leading ..... " Something akin to "who wears the pants" comes to mind ...

This explains Mr.B's Hillary-derangement syndrome. She led and she wore pants. Both evil in his personal belief system.

[Mr.B]

"an unusually intelligent man .... woman..leading ..... " Something akin to "who wears the pants" comes to mind ..."

This explains Mr.B's Hillary-derangement syndrome. She led and she wore pants. Both evil in his personal belief system.

She wore the pants (figuratively speaking) in her family? (let me know if I have to re-type that a little slower so you'll understand what it means ...

[rstrong]

"an unusually intelligent man .... woman..leading ..... " Something akin to "who wears the pants" comes to mind ..."

This explains Mr.B's Hillary-derangement syndrome. She led and she wore pants. Both evil in his personal belief system.

She wore the pants (figuratively speaking) in her family? (let me know if I have to re-type that a little slower so you'll understand what it means ...

You've stated several time that the man - and ONLY the man - may be in charge. Hillary was an equal partner.

The Bible also makes it clear that a woman may not have authority over men, must be subservient, and - according to Paul in 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy, must shut up while in church.

(Granted, some religious scholars point to considerable evidence that those bits were added by later authors. But if you accept that, you'd have to accept the other ways that Christianity and the Bible evolved over the first centuries after Jesus. Like his resurrection not being in early texts, but showing up three centuries later.)

[Vrede too]

... Like his resurrection not being in early texts, but showing up three centuries later.

3 days is nothing, he may not have really been dead. However, I am impressed by his being resurrected three centuries later.

[Mr.B]

"The Bible also makes it clear that a woman may not have authority over men, must be subservient, and - according to Paul in 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy, must shut up while in church."

It doesn't say "shut up" ... you know well what it means. You've beat that dead horse many times; ain't changed a thing; ain't gonna. Deal with it.
A Godly man should be head of his house; what happened in your house? Godly women have no problem with it .... why should you?
(not saying that divorce doesn't occur in Christian homes either)

[rstrong]

"The Bible also makes it clear that a woman may not have authority over men, must be subservient, and - according to Paul in 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy, must shut up while in church."

It doesn't say "shut up" ... you know well what it means.

It does, and I do.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35s:
"As in all the congregations of the Lord’s people. Women should remain silent in the churches, They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

1 Timothy 2: 9-15:
"A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."

You might want to study the book some time, rather than rely on non-Christians for information about it.

A Godly man should be head of his house; what happened in your house? Godly women have no problem with it ....

As I said; that is your personal belief. What you've cherry-picked from the Bible while ignoring or denying the rest.

[Mr.B]

Where does it say "shut up"?

The Bible also says that a church leader (deacon or elder) is to be the husband of one wife.
Like I said, it ain't changed, ain't gonna change; your being offended by it don't mean squat.
Don't like that? Tough. Run on down to Walmart and get you some toilet paper; you'll need it.

[Vrede too]

That's exactly what an Islamic extremist would say, exactly. Funny that. If a "Godly [sic, adjective] man" has superior leadership or other skills, that will happen naturally. Otherwise, it's just a weak excuse for the insecure and incompetent to be a literal dickhead. Is that what happened in your house? Mr.B Ali's world of "real" Christians just got a lot smaller. Every single woman that sees marriage as an equal partnership is ungodly, period. Doesn't get any more misogynistic and hateful than that. No wonder he voted for Trump. Sexual abusers are godly, competent women and self-confident men are not.

[O Really]

Interesting conundrum: either everything in the Bible must be taken literally, as it is written, or it's all subject to various conflicting interpretation, which means essentially it says whatever you want it to say.

Here's a scholarly discussion of the women speaking issue that seems to take the "must be interpreted" approach.
http://fuller.edu/about/women-in-minist ... 2%80%9335/

The same principle and thought could undoubtedly be applied to most every part of the Bible, but usually those who quote chapter and verse the most don't usually add any context. For example, the sixth commandment says unequivocally "thou shalt not kill." Although usually interpreted as "murder", it says what it says, if you're a literalist. So can you interpret that one and leave others carved in stone? And how about keeping the Sabbath holy? How did the "holy day" turn into Sunday?

For those who select individual verses (instead of broader principles) as points of argument, it's hard to deny that " the women should keep silent in the churches." Interpret that into something different, open all individual verses into free-form interpretation.