Guns, race, religion, terror, wingnut thread

[Vrede too]

I checked your link, and wondered, by whose authority are signs forbidden? On public property?
That's enough to make me act to contrary.

You're correct that they can't legally forbid them, but it's a pain in the ass to argue with folks that would otherwise be on your team, especially when it's a somber marking of a tragedy.

My sign, if I'd gone:

No Nazis
No KKK
No Fascist USA

Or, I wouldn't have gotten around to it and only their stupid rule kept me from going. It's not a rule in Greenville, SC, Waynesville, NC and I'll bet 99% of towns holding vigils, just Hooterville. I wonder if it's the same people that want us to be nice to Meadows and the Sens and throw those that aren't under the bus?

Protesters get a meeting, but not with Tillis

... "The town halls that are occurring around the country, many of them, we don't feel are very productive," (Jayne) Jennings (Progressive Organized Women co-organizer) said. "We are a progressive group, but we feel that many of the other progressive groups are ambushing the members of Congress, and that simply is not the approach we wanted to take." ...

[k9nanny]

WLOS has a video on their page, and there were signs, especially a professionally done sign that reads "Hate has no home here."
Looks like a fair attendance. Being Hendo, it was the same crowd you'd find at the Early Bird Special. NTTAWWT. That is my age group, after all.

[Vrede too]

WLOS has a video on their page, and there were signs, especially a professionally done sign that reads "Hate has no home here."
Looks like a fair attendance. Being Hendo, it was the same crowd you'd find at the Early Bird Special. NTTAWWT. That is my age group, after all.

Saw that, either "political" is narrowly defined or they scrapped the dumb rule.

[k9nanny]

I'm betting they didn't want any Dump Trump stuff.
Still don't know who "they" is, that wanted first and last names with an RSVP.

[Vrede too]

I'm betting they didn't want any Dump Trump stuff.

That could be it. If so, I object to being discouraged from calling out the Racist in Chief.

Still don't know who "they" is, that wanted first and last names with an RSVP.

That's MoveOn's RSVP page. It appeared for all cities. The links to the city created info. that I saw didn't ask for RSVPs.

[rstrong]

Godwin of Godwin's Law: 'By All Means, Compare These Shitheads to the Nazis'

In this case, however, the discussion concerns “alt righters” marching in Charlottesville who were, well, flying swastikas, Sieg Heil-ing, and wearing shirts with Hitler quotes. And Godwin himself took to Facebook to let everyone know that if it walks like a Nazi and talks like a Nazi, you better let people know what it really is.

[Vrede too]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

History

Godwin has stated that he introduced Godwin's law in 1990 as an experiment in memetics.

Godwin's law does not claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons. "Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust", Godwin has written. In December 2015, Godwin commented on the Nazi and fascist comparisons being made by several articles on Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, saying that "If you're thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician." On August 13, 2017, Godwin made similar remarks on social networking websites Facebook and Twitter with respect to the two previous days' Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, endorsing and encouraging efforts to compare its alt-right organizers to Nazis.

:thumbup:

[billy.pilgrim]

Bad apple, or just another pig?

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog ... ttesville/

"Hahahaha love this,” Lariviere wrote in a since-deleted Facebook comment below a post about the incident by conservative writer Ben Shapiro, which was obtained and published by the site MassLive, “maybe people shouldn’t block roads.”


I've only heard one comment on the news that five states have made what this nazi did with his car - legal.

[k9nanny]

The latest crap from YourNewsWire is being posted on every deplorable site, and the wing nuts accept it as fact. I've seen numerous comments reflecting this point of view, and it makes me crazy.

Ironically, the premise of false flags to bring about martial law is what they said when Obama was prez.

The man accused of being a neo-Nazi and murdering a woman by deliberately driving into her during protests in Charlottesville is in reality a supporter of Hillary Clinton and member of Antifa in receipt of funding by George Soros, according to reports.

James Fields, 20, of Maumee, Ohio, allegedly killed Heather Heyer, aged 32, and injured 19 others when he rammed his car into a group of protesters on Saturday in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Mainstream media is claiming Fields is a neo-Nazi and has conveniently produced photographs showing Fields standing with Vanguard America and carrying a shield bearing the group's insignia.

But the mainstream media is actively suppressing information that proves Fields is actually a left-wing operative at the heart of a false flag designed to spark civil war, introduce martial law, and take away the rights of conservative groups to assemble peacefully.

[rstrong]

Ironically, the premise of false flags to bring about martial law is what they said when Obama was prez.

InfoWars, WorldNetDaily and the right-wingnut-o-sphere also spent the entire Bush II administration issuing weekly claims that he was about to implement martial law. Any crisis or incident was a "false flag" created as a pretext to provoke it. This in addition to constant "North American Union", "Amero" and "NAFTA Superhighway" claims

I'm sure that they have document templates ready to go. A new pandemic? Call up the template used for SARS, H1N1 and Ebola, enter the current virus name and President's name, and click 'Publish.'

[Vrede too]

Yeah, every time they look bad the ammosexual, Trumpette, neonazi cowards just invent some lie and spread it across the web.


"Charlottesville Virginia has three Confederate war monuments, one World War I monument, one Vietnam War monument, two (pro) Native American genocide monuments, one statue of Thomas Jefferson, one statue of Homer (poet of war), and no major monuments to anything else."



https://diy.rootsaction.org/petitions/p ... ottesville

I didn't sign because I think peace poles are rather tame and mostly because I figure it's up to the people of Charlottesville to figure out what to do. However, I would contribute to the erection of an Antifa/BLM monument.

[Vrede too]

Charlottesville: Twitter users name and shame white supremacists at far-right rally

Twitter users are calling out participants in the Charlottesville white supremacist rallies

:---P

Obama's Response To Charlottesville Violence Becomes Third Most Liked Tweet In History

Barack Obama shared a Nelson Mandela quote following violent clashes at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

The former president tweeted:

Barack Obama‏ Verified account
@BarackObama

"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..."

...

Doesn't say what the top 2 tweets are.

[O Really]

Having been SDS in real life, I could see finding antifa appealing if I were granted another idealistic and somewhat reckless youth. I don't think we (collectively) can just let the nazi/white supremiscists bunch just toodle along saying/doing whatever they want as an expression of "freedom of speech." There are some things a civilized and educated society can't and shouldn't tolerate. I say kick their asses and let the lawyers clean up the mess.

[Vrede too]

A lot of the nazi/white supremacists are screeching, "Antifa/BLM was violent first!" I doubt that it's as exclusive and true as they are claiming, but I think much of America agrees with you that it's okay if Antifa/BLM were first. Any gathering of the Klan coming into a decent town is asking for it. My only hesitation is uncertainty over whether kicking their asses - or trying to, they'll probably start shooting sometime - is the best for what we want in the long run. To some extent it plays into their meme of being the victimized defenders of free speech. Plus, as you say, it's a young person's battle and many won't show if violence is a possibility. What's better - 1,000 Antifa ready to fight or 20,000 committed to nonviolent opposition? There's also the collateral damage to consider. Antifa/BLM is not going to attack generic cons, but as we saw Saturday when the nazi/white supremacists get their asses kicked they run over peaceful demos.

[O Really]

What's better - 1,000 Antifa ready to fight or 20,000 committed to nonviolent opposition? .

Must there be a choice?
I think one of the best protest strategies was the "protective shield" that hid the Westboro Baptist Church slime from public view. But I think that there should be significant consequences for groups like the KKK, Nazis, etc. expressing their "freedom of speech." It's not a "political viewpoint." Advocating violent overthrow of the US government, for example, is not "free speech." While not everything they say is specifically illegal, it should simply not be acceptable. Don't talk to me about "freedom of assembly." If you're going to assemble to plot some klanish mischief or terrorist activity, there should be consequences. History abounds with examples of seriously crazy people getting power because nobody bothered (had the nerve, cared, whatever) to shut them down while they could.

[Vrede too]

Must there be a choice?

Yes, "many won't show if violence is a possibility." Some out of legit fear, others like me that have doubts over whether it's the best strategy. I got asked to go to Charlottesville. I would have stayed out of the brawling but I could have been one of those run over. If not, I would have been one of those caring for the injured. As it was, I know one of the medics that tried to help the woman that died. Not sure what I'll do the next time, I might go.

I think one of the best protest strategies was the "protective shield" that hid the Westboro Baptist Church slime from public view. But I think that there should be significant consequences for groups like the KKK, Nazis, etc. expressing their "freedom of speech." It's not a "political viewpoint." Advocating violent overthrow of the US government, for example, is not "free speech." While not everything they say is specifically illegal, it should simply not be acceptable. Don't talk to me about "freedom of assembly." If you're going to assemble to plot some klanish mischief or terrorist activity, there should be consequences. History abounds with examples of seriously crazy people getting power because nobody bothered (had the nerve, cared, whatever) to shut them down while they could.

No argument here, I have no moral problem with kicking nazi ass. I only wonder whether it's politically wise at this time and in this country.

Devil's advocate - If it's okay to show up to fight, is there anything wrong with attacking nazis outside of demos, say in their homes?

[O Really]

Consequences:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-marched- ... 04764.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charlottesvi ... 00178.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 24b3442836

http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/wsu-stu ... /591646920

[O Really]

Devil's advocate - If it's okay to show up to fight, is there anything wrong with attacking nazis outside of demos, say in their homes?[/color]

There are probably worse jobs for large badass black guys just out of prison who have trouble finding employment.

[Vrede too]

I especially like this one.

Consequences:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-marched- ... 04764.html

Here's the HuffPo original, linked only because Yahoo! was weirdly playing a video's audio without a video box that I could pause.

Man Who Marched In Charlottesville White Supremacy Rally Disowned By Family
“We do not know specifically where he learned these beliefs,” Pete Tefft’s father wrote in an open letter. “He did not learn them at home."

... In a letter published Monday in The Forum of Fargo-Moorhead, Pearce Tefft wrote that he and other family members ”wish to loudly repudiate” their son’s “vile, hateful and racist rhetoric and actions.” ...

Letter: Family denounces Tefft's racist rhetoric and actions

My name is Pearce Tefft, and I am writing to all, with regards to my youngest son, Peter Tefft, an avowed white nationalist who has been featured in a number of local news stories over the last several months.

On Friday night, my son traveled to Charlottesville, Va., and was interviewed by a national news outlet while marching with reported white nationalists, who allegedly went on to kill a person.

I, along with all of his siblings and his entire family, wish to loudly repudiate my son’s vile, hateful and racist rhetoric and actions. We do not know specifically where he learned these beliefs. He did not learn them at home.

I have shared my home and hearth with friends and acquaintances of every race, gender and creed. I have taught all of my children that all men and women are created equal. That we must love each other all the same.

Evidently Peter has chosen to unlearn these lessons, much to my and his family’s heartbreak and distress. We have been silent up until now, but now we see that this was a mistake. It was the silence of good people that allowed the Nazis to flourish the first time around, and it is the silence of good people that is allowing them to flourish now.

Peter Tefft, my son, is not welcome at our family gatherings any longer. I pray my prodigal son will renounce his hateful beliefs and return home. Then and only then will I lay out the feast.

His hateful opinions are bringing hateful rhetoric to his siblings, cousins, nieces and nephews as well as his parents. Why must we be guilty by association? Again, none of his beliefs were learned at home. We do not, never have, and never will, accept his twisted worldview.

He once joked, “The thing about us fascists is, it’s not that we don’t believe in freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want. We’ll just throw you in an oven.”

Peter, you will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too. Please son, renounce the hate, accept and love all.

Wow.

Back to HuffPo:

Other relatives of Pete Tefft are also publicly disavowing him.

Jacob Scott, his nephew, released this statement to local station WDAY TV:

Peter is a maniac, who has turned away from all of us and gone down some insane internet rabbit-hole, and turned into a crazy nazi. He scares us all, we don’t feel safe around him, and we don’t know how he came to be this way. My grandfather feels especially grieved, as though he has failed as a father.

Meanwhile, in Durham:

Protesters topple Confederate statue in North Carolina (article)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy758yaD4UI

[O Really]

Think this guy will have an easy time getting a job on graduation? https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/whit ... 31568.html