2018 elections

[billy.pilgrim]

Yep, Leo is a racist.

Discussion over.

[Vrede too]

Plus, character is not dependent on witnesses nor the presence of victims.

You're saying it's OK to judge someone's character without their being seen or heard, or having any knowledge of them?

No, goofball, I'm saying that a racist is a racist whether or not they hide it. True character is independent of my judgment or anyone else's. If s/he is indeed a racist and not, for example, just being a childish troll, only THEN will I "judge" him/her to be an asshole.

That was a really lame attempt to trip me up, really lame.

[GoCubsGo]

I have family who, like leo, firmly believe that it's not racist if it's done in private.
Does a falling tree make a noise if no one's around to hear it?

It's like saying that rape and pedophilia discussions are okay as long as it's with other rapists and pedophiles.

Dumb analogies. Does a falling tree make a noise if no one's around to hear it?

The tree still fell.

[Vrede too]

Oh wait, I think childish trolls are assholes, too.

[billy.pilgrim]

Oh wait, I think childish trolls are assholes, too.

It's not really trolling. True, he's looking for a response, but a real troll doesn't really believe his crap, a troll is putting it out there to promote a personal agenda or to offend or to distract, or whatever. Leo's racism comes from the heart, as did trump's "go back to their huts", "shithole countries", desantis' "monkey up" or Allen's macaca, comments.

Our environment plays a big part in our understanding of race. Growing up in 50s and 60s Alabama I was taught that there was a difference - as soon as I could read I understood why there were 3 bathrooms, rear entrances and balconies. By 12 or 13 (spending time on the family Tenn farm) I became Mister Billy to the black tenant farmers. I saw the shacks and the government housing across the tracks in Lochapoka, and the broken down cars. We laughed at front porch Coke machines and most people showed little interest in understanding why, instead they concentrated on anything they could to find to drum up the hate.

Every observable fact of our day to day lives in rural 1960s Alabama and Tenn proved that there was a difference between the races and that we were the better one.

some people are brought up away from racism, others aren't so lucky.

I was convinced away from a lot of racist beliefs by my friends during changing times, I was lucky.

[Leo Lyons]

Yep, Leo is a racist...Discussion over.

Is that the best you can do? Perhaps you should refer back to The Daily Mail for more smug comeback material.

[Vrede too]

"front porch Coke machine"?

Oh wait, I think childish trolls are assholes, too.

It's not really trolling. True, he's looking for a response, but a real troll doesn't really believe his crap, a troll is putting it out there to promote a personal agenda or to offend or to distract, or whatever. Leo's racism comes from the heart, as did trump's "go back to their huts", "shithole countries", desantis' "monkey up" or Allen's macaca, comments....

Not disagreeing with you, just leaving room for all possibilities, and making my feelings clear even if we're a long way from breaking through any denial.

It is especially revealing and disturbing to hear a former narc argue that racism is okay as long as people don't know that you're racist. Of course, that was always more the point of the rug war than "protecting" us from drugs.

Race and the Drug War

The drug war has produced profoundly unequal outcomes across racial groups, manifested through racial discrimination by law enforcement and disproportionate drug war misery suffered by communities of color.

Many different communities of color bear the impact of the discriminatory enforcement of drug laws. This impact may vary across cities and regions. Nationwide, some of the most egregious racial disparities can be seen in the case of African Americans and Latinos.

Higher arrest and incarceration rates for these communities are not reflective of increased prevalence of drug use, but rather of law enforcement’s focus on urban areas, lower income communities and communities of color.

Disparities in arrests and incarceration are seen for both drug possession law violations as well as low-level sales. Those selling small amounts of drugs to support their own drug use may go to jail for decades. This unequal enforcement ignores the universality of drug dependency, as well as the universal appeal of drugs themselves.

We believe that the mass criminalization of people of color, particularly young African Americans, is as profound a system of racial control as the Jim Crow laws were in this country until the mid-1960s....

[Leo Lyons]

No, goofball, I'm saying that a racist is a racist whether or not they hide it. True character is independent of my judgment or anyone else's. If s/he is indeed a racist and not, for example, just being a childish troll, only THEN will I "judge" him/her to be an asshole.

That was a really lame attempt to trip me up, really lame.

Honestly, I was not trying to trip you up. I asked a simple question that I'll ask again using different words; and I'll type a little slower® so you'll understand, and not get totally confused.
How would you know someone is racist if they weren't showing any outward appearance; how do you judge someone's character if you're not in the same room with them; and lastly, calling me a childish troll is merely a deflection from your being caught in a "dumb-ass trap".
Man up and and confess your statements are stupid.

Also what O Really wrote:
"But why is it people are so willing to defend their "right" to disrespect, denigrate, belittle or offend others? Why do they consider being a decently nice person a weakness of sorts? Why is self-centered selfish considered a desirable trait?" .... now you read it; go look in a mirror.

[Leo Lyons]

I have family who, like leo, firmly believe that it's not racist if it's done in private.
Does a falling tree make a noise if no one's around to hear it?

It's like saying that rape and pedophilia discussions are okay as long as it's with other rapists and pedophiles.

Dumb analogies. Does a falling tree make a noise if no one's around to hear it?

The tree still fell.

It's clear this went right over your head.
What's done in private is not seen; a discussion among your own kind is unheard by others.
Now study what I said about the tree; maybe you'll get it.

[Leo Lyons]

Oh wait, I think childish trolls are assholes, too.

I would tell you to go look in your mirror, but it dawned on me that you most likely don't have a full-length mirror because your mind is smart enough to know it sees a real pussy.

[Leo Lyons]

Oh wait, I think childish trolls are assholes, too.

It's not really trolling. True, he's looking for a response
Doesn't everyone who posts here look for a response? What's the point in a forum, if no one responds to your questions, comments, or observations?

but a real troll doesn't really believe his crap, a troll is putting it out there to promote a personal agenda or to offend or to distract, or whatever.
It's apparent you don't like anyone disagreeing with you; to do so makes them a troll?

Leo's racism comes from the heart, as did trump's "go back to their huts", "shithole countries", desantis' "monkey up" or Allen's macaca, comments.
You know nothing of my heart; you're blowing smoke out your ass to get attention..
You have absolutely nothing to compare me with Trump, because I've never used or referred to any of that terminology in any of my posts; past or present. To put it in terms you do understand though, you're full of shit.

Our environment plays a big part in our understanding of race. Growing up in 50s and 60s Alabama I was taught that there was a difference - as soon as I could read I understood why there were 3 bathrooms, rear entrances and balconies. By 12 or 13 (spending time on the family Tenn farm) I became Mister Billy to the black tenant farmers. I saw the shacks and the government housing across the tracks in Lochapoka, and the broken down cars. We laughed at front porch Coke machines and most people showed little interest in understanding why, instead they concentrated on anything they could to find to drum up the hate. Every observable fact of our day to day lives in rural 1960s Alabama and Tenn proved that there was a difference between the races and that we were the better one. some people are brought up away from racism, others aren't so lucky.
I was convinced away from a lot of racist beliefs by my friends during changing times, I was lucky.
Are you through living in and whining over the past? Cry me a river; you weren't the only one who grew up in less-than-ideal conditions. Granted, that was an ugly time in our history, and this dumb-cluck in Washington has done nothing but resurrect old hatreds and bigotries; but accusing everyone coming and going who takes a stand against false accusations and accusing them of being racist because they take a stand, is the role of a troll---or asshole.

[Leo Lyons]

No, goofball, I'm saying that a racist is a racist whether or not they hide it. True character is independent of my judgment or anyone else's. If s/he is indeed a racist and not, for example, just being a childish troll, only THEN will I "judge" him/her to be an asshole.

That was a really lame attempt to trip me up, really lame.

Honestly, I was not trying to trip you up. I asked a simple question that I'll ask again using different words; and I'll type a little slower® so you'll understand, and not get totally confused.
How would you know someone is racist if they weren't showing any outward appearance; how do you judge someone's character if you're not in the same room with them; and lastly, calling me a childish troll is merely a deflection from your being caught in a "dumb-ass trap".
Man up and and confess your statements are stupid.

Also what O Really wrote:
"But why is it people are so willing to defend their "right" to disrespect, denigrate, belittle or offend others? Why do they consider being a decently nice person a weakness of sorts? Why is self-centered selfish considered a desirable trait?" .... now you read it; go look in a mirror.

btw ... I noticed you had no snappy comeback on this comment from O Really, and my reply.

[GoCubsGo]

I have family who, like leo, firmly believe that it's not racist if it's done in private.
Does a falling tree make a noise if no one's around to hear it?

It's like saying that rape and pedophilia discussions are okay as long as it's with other rapists and pedophiles.

Dumb analogies. Does a falling tree make a noise if no one's around to hear it?

The tree still fell.

It's clear this went right over your head.
What's done in private is not seen; a discussion among your own kind is unheard by others.
Now study what I said about the tree; maybe you'll get it.

A bigot is still a bigot whether they say it out loud or not. Not saying anything out loud doesn't change the person.

Talk about going over your head. Sheesh.

[Leo Lyons]

It is especially revealing and disturbing to hear a former narc argue that racism is okay as long as people don't know that you're racist. Of course, that was always more the point of the rug war :?: than "protecting" us from drugs.

You're making that up; you never saw me post any such thing. You know exactly what I said, and what I meant.
How would I know if someone is racist if I never interacted with them? I don't have racist-radar such as is your talent.
That shit you shoot into your veins has affected your brai... oh wait, never mind.

[Leo Lyons]

A bigot is still a bigot whether they say it out loud or not. Not saying anything out loud doesn't change the person.
So you're endowed with racist-radar too? You three are good!
Talk about going over your head. Sheesh.
Tell me about it; I'm waitng.

[GoCubsGo]

A bigot is still a bigot whether they say it out loud or not. Not saying anything out loud doesn't change the person.
So you're endowed with racist-radar too? You three are good!
Talk about going over your head. Sheesh.
Tell me about it; I'm waitng.

Sometimes I can't tell if you're that dumb or just trolling.

Ok, now I can tell.

How's that for radar?

[billy.pilgrim]

Oh wait, I think childish trolls are assholes, too.

It's not really trolling. True, he's looking for a response
Doesn't everyone who posts here look for a response? What's the point in a forum, if no one responds to your questions, comments, or observations?

but a real troll doesn't really believe his crap, a troll is putting it out there to promote a personal agenda or to offend or to distract, or whatever.
It's apparent you don't like anyone disagreeing with you; to do so makes them a troll?

Leo's racism comes from the heart, as did trump's "go back to their huts", "shithole countries", desantis' "monkey up" or Allen's macaca, comments.
You know nothing of my heart; you're blowing smoke out your ass to get attention..
You have absolutely nothing to compare me with Trump, because I've never used or referred to any of that terminology in any of my posts; past or present. To put it in terms you do understand though, you're full of shit.

Our environment plays a big part in our understanding of race. Growing up in 50s and 60s Alabama I was taught that there was a difference - as soon as I could read I understood why there were 3 bathrooms, rear entrances and balconies. By 12 or 13 (spending time on the family Tenn farm) I became Mister Billy to the black tenant farmers. I saw the shacks and the government housing across the tracks in Lochapoka, and the broken down cars. We laughed at front porch Coke machines and most people showed little interest in understanding why, instead they concentrated on anything they could to find to drum up the hate. Every observable fact of our day to day lives in rural 1960s Alabama and Tenn proved that there was a difference between the races and that we were the better one. some people are brought up away from racism, others aren't so lucky.
I was convinced away from a lot of racist beliefs by my friends during changing times, I was lucky.
Are you through living in and whining over the past? Cry me a river; you weren't the only one who grew up in less-than-ideal conditions. Granted, that was an ugly time in our history, and this dumb-cluck in Washington has done nothing but resurrect old hatreds and bigotries; but accusing everyone coming and going who takes a stand against false accusations and accusing them of being racist because they take a stand, is the role of a troll---or asshole.

Granted, I'm an asshole, but at least I'm not such an ignorant asshole that I would ever think that "a discussion among your own kind is unheard by others" isn't an example of your heart of hearts, just as trump, desantis and Allen allowed their upbringing and their heart to show.

Just because you don't say it in public, doesn't make bringing your hidden racism into public okay.

[Vrede too]

This chat sure entered the Twilight Zone rapidly. It's page 9 origins:

We can no longer publicly say the expression "jew him down", because it's hate speech...
We can can longer "jerry-rig" or "nig*er rig" or "Afro-engineer" something to make it work temporarily...

No, you can no longer use those terms because they're rude and disrespectful. Do you seriously think they're not?

I have to say it would depend on who's in current company; otherwise, yes.

Those are not our phrases placed in Leo Lyons' mouth. That is not us saying that he thinks they're peachy in certain company. This is not our pretending that we can read his mind or look into his "heart". This is Leo Lyons CLEARLY implying regret over the loss of those phrases and overtly and unequivocally stating that uttering them in some company and holding them in one's heart are okay and yes, that IS racism.

In this context, suggesting that he might just be a childish troll is cutting him some slack. However, he objects to this description, so the ONLY alternative is that he is a racist.

Next up: More wussy denial, desperate deflection and garble logic from Leo Lyons.

[Leo Lyons]

A bigot is still a bigot whether they say it out loud or not. Not saying anything out loud doesn't change the person.
So you're endowed with racist-radar too? You three are good!
Talk about going over your head. Sheesh.
Tell me about it; I'm waitng.

Sometimes I can't tell if you're that dumb or just trolling.

Ok, now I can tell. How's that for radar?

Answer the effin' question, Radarman: You said "A bigot is still a bigot whether they say it out loud or not. Not saying anything out loud doesn't change the person."

That the person is a bigot is not the point; my question, that you're skirting, dancing around, and stumbling over is: If they say anything you can't hear or you haven't heard them say anything previously, how in hell are you so psychic to know they are racist or a bigot?

Here's the sign for you, billy dot and Vrede

[Vrede too]

Here we go:

Racist robocalls mocking Florida's black gubernatorial candidate appear to be from podcast