Single hurricane thread

[Vrede too]

My ex in-laws family was there for the Okeechobee flood. They said that most of the deaths were after the storm. According to them, and I think also in the book The River of Grass, the storm winds pushed the water out of the lake and locals were trapped in the lake bed with wagons collecting fish when the waters started refilling the lake.

All I know is the Weather Channel and Wiki, and both blame the storm surge rather than that. How did the lake bottom dry out so fast that wagons could get very far, and what would cause the lake water to rise so rapidly that people couldn't just walk out of it?

[Leo Lyons]

My ex in-laws family was there for the Okeechobee flood. They said that most of the deaths were after the storm. According to them, and I think also in the book The River of Grass, the storm winds pushed the water out of the lake and locals were trapped in the lake bed with wagons collecting fish when the waters started refilling the lake.

All I know is the Weather Channel and Wiki, and both blame the storm surge rather than that. How did the lake bottom dry out so fast that wagons could get very far, and what would cause the lake water to rise so rapidly that people couldn't just walk out of it?

I recall a story about the parting of the Red Sea. They went over on dry ground; the followers were S-O-L.

[billy.pilgrim]

My ex in-laws family was there for the Okeechobee flood. They said that most of the deaths were after the storm. According to them, and I think also in the book The River of Grass, the storm winds pushed the water out of the lake and locals were trapped in the lake bed with wagons collecting fish when the waters started refilling the lake.

All I know is the Weather Channel and Wiki, and both blame the storm surge rather than that. How did the lake bottom dry out so fast that wagons could get very far, and what would cause the lake water to rise so rapidly that people couldn't just walk out of it?

I recall a story about the parting of the Red Sea. They went over on dry ground; the followers were S-O-L.

but yours is just an old sheep herder myth, mine was in the daily news

[Leo Lyons]

but yours is just an old sheep herder myth, mine was in the daily news

The comparison is the same, whether a myth or factual; people died.

[Vrede too]

Only mythical people die in myths.

Naturally, most of the migrant farm workers were black.

I didn't read where that distinction was made; migrants or race. Source?
Vrede too is known for pulling sensationalized facts out of his.... book of Vrede's facts.

Project much? As I quoted:

... Around 75% of the fatalities were migrant farm workers, making identification of both dead and missing bodies very difficult; as a result of this, the count of the dead is not very accurate....

Comprehend much?

As for their being mostly black, I listed 2 sources for my post - Wiki, which I quoted, AND:

Everyone has heard of the 1900 Great Galveston hurricane that caused between 6,000 and 12,000 fatalities in the United States. I just learned on the Weather Channel about the 1928 Okeechobee hurricane, "Florida's Forgotten Hurricane", the 2nd deadliest US hurricane.

Pay attention. If you wish to send a stern note to the Weather Channel, be my guest.

Plus, it doesn't take a history professor, or even someone with half a brain to know that most migrant farm workers in 1928, in the South, were black.

It's always a scream when your desperate and obsessive attacks on me fail so spectacularly.

Looks like you're cowering from your massive flub. No surprise, you always do. However, it gets even worse for you. Turns out that my Wiki link, which you claim to have "read" and were clearly lying about, has an entire section on the topic:

Racial issues

Further information: Hurricane of 1928 African American Mass Burial Site

In Florida, although the hurricane's destruction affected everything in its path, the death toll was by far highest and the aftermath the worst in the economically poor areas in the low-lying ground right around Lake Okeechobee, such as Belle Glade, Chosen, Pahokee, South Bay, and Bean City. Around 75% of the fatalities were among migrant farm workers, most of whom were black.

The black workers did most of the post-hurricane cleanup work, and the few caskets available for burials were mostly used for the bodies of whites. Additionally, the white victims received a proper burial at Woodlawn Cemetery in downtown West Palm Beach, which was the only mass gravesite to receive a timely memorial.

In contrast, the bodies of black victims were burned in funeral pyres or thrown into mass burial sites such as the ones in West Palm Beach and Port Mayaca.

Robert Hazard, a resident of West Palm Beach, established the Storm of '28 Memorial Park Coalition Inc. to fight for recognition of the black victims of the storm. In 2000, the West Palm Beach burial site was reacquired by the city of West Palm Beach and plans for construction of a memorial began. The site was listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places in 2002 and a state historical marker was added in 2003 during the 75th anniversary of the hurricane.

The effects of the hurricane on black migrant workers were dramatized in African-American writer Zora Neale Hurston's 1937 seminal novel, Their Eyes Were Watching God, her best known work and a selection on TIME magazine's 2005 list of the 100 best English-language novels published since 1923.

Hurricane of 1928 African-American Mass Burial Site

The Hurricane of 1928 African-American Mass Burial Site (also known as Pauper's Cemetery) is a pauper's cemetery and mass grave in West Palm Beach, Florida. It is listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places. The cemetery is situated near the junction of 25th Street and Tamarind Avenue between I-95 and U.S. Route 1. The site is the location in which 674 bodies of African Americans or those of an unknown race were buried following the 1928 Okeechobee hurricane, while most of the white victims of the storm received a proper burial at Woodlawn Cemetery, due to segregation laws....

The 1928 Okeechobee hurricane caused at least 2,500 deaths, most of which were migrant, black farmer workers around Lake Okeechobee....

[billy.pilgrim]

My ex in-laws family was there for the Okeechobee flood. They said that most of the deaths were after the storm. According to them, and I think also in the book The River of Grass, the storm winds pushed the water out of the lake and locals were trapped in the lake bed with wagons collecting fish when the waters started refilling the lake.

All I know is the Weather Channel and Wiki, and both blame the storm surge rather than that. How did the lake bottom dry out so fast that wagons could get very far, and what would cause the lake water to rise so rapidly that people couldn't just walk out of it?

it was muck – and the reason that so many were stranded. mostly hand carts, but wagons pulled by mules were also caught.

storm surge 40 miles inland seems extremely farfetched, but maybe they mean the surge of the returning water. I’ve seen Mobile bay emptied after a hurricane stalled over it.

My ex-inlaws settled on the coast fairly close to Okeechobee in the 1880s and were there in 1928. I first heard the story from them and, I’m almost sure, again in Marjory Stoneman Douglas’ book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Everg ... r_of_Grass

I’ve read it twice and likely won’t again. it’s outdated on some of the science but well worth the read – short and quick too.



wiki sure gives a detailed account. possibly some of the deaths were from people going out into the lake

[Vrede too]

... storm surge 40 miles inland seems extremely farfetched, but maybe they mean the surge of the returning water. I’ve seen Mobile bay emptied after a hurricane stalled over it....

Not ocean storm surge.

Lake Okeechobee and Everglades

Inland, the hurricane wreaked much more widespread destruction along the more heavily populated coast of Lake Okeechobee. Residents had been warned to evacuate the low ground earlier in the day, but after the hurricane did not arrive on schedule, many thought it had missed and returned to their homes. In the weeks prior to storm, heavy rainfall caused the lake to rise 3 ft (0.91 m) between August 10 and September 10 and filled nearby canals and ditches. Precipitation from the hurricane itself caused Lake Okeechobee to rise further. When the worst of the storm crossed the lake, the south-blowing wind caused a storm surge to overflow the small dike that had been built at the south end of the lake. The resulting flood covered an area of hundreds of square miles with water that in some places was over 20 ft (6 m) deep. Houses were floated off of their foundations and dashed to pieces against any obstacle they encountered. Most survivors and bodies were washed out into the Everglades where many of the bodies were never found. Agricultural losses in the area surrounding Lake Okeechobee were also significant, with virtually all crops destroyed and over 150 tractors suffering damage.

As the rear eyewall passed over the area, the flood reversed itself, breaking the dikes along the northern coast of the lake and causing similar but smaller flooding....

[billy.pilgrim]

... storm surge 40 miles inland seems extremely farfetched, but maybe they mean the surge of the returning water. I’ve seen Mobile bay emptied after a hurricane stalled over it....

Not ocean storm surge.

Lake Okeechobee and Everglades

Inland, the hurricane wreaked much more widespread destruction along the more heavily populated coast of Lake Okeechobee. Residents had been warned to evacuate the low ground earlier in the day, but after the hurricane did not arrive on schedule, many thought it had missed and returned to their homes. In the weeks prior to storm, heavy rainfall caused the lake to rise 3 ft (0.91 m) between August 10 and September 10 and filled nearby canals and ditches. Precipitation from the hurricane itself caused Lake Okeechobee to rise further. When the worst of the storm crossed the lake, the south-blowing wind caused a storm surge to overflow the small dike that had been built at the south end of the lake. The resulting flood covered an area of hundreds of square miles with water that in some places was over 20 ft (6 m) deep. Houses were floated off of their foundations and dashed to pieces against any obstacle they encountered. Most survivors and bodies were washed out into the Everglades where many of the bodies were never found. Agricultural losses in the area surrounding Lake Okeechobee were also significant, with virtually all crops destroyed and over 150 tractors suffering damage.

As the rear eyewall passed over the area, the flood reversed itself, breaking the dikes along the northern coast of the lake and causing similar but smaller flooding....

so, a surge out of the lake would have to return to the lake. people opposite the surge would have had an emptied lake full of fish floundering around in shallow pools.

I'm still liking the family story I heard from the ex's grandfather - he would have been in his early 30s and I may have to go back and read the Douglas book.

[Vrede too]

so, a surge out of the lake would have to return to the lake.

Not in an area with as little topography as central FL. Plus, water that's been disbursed over hundreds of square miles can't be forced into a surge wall like ocean, bay or lake water can.

people opposite the surge would have had an emptied lake full of fish floundering around in shallow pools.

Maybe, but the storm was still raging. I can't imagine that many folks went "fishing" in the middle of it. As soon as the storm passed the lake would have reverted to its now significantly depleted norm.

I'm still liking the family story I heard from the ex's grandfather - he would have been in his early 30s and I may have to go back and read the Douglas book.

The Wiki article has tons of sources. Maybe what you're looking for is in one of them.

[Leo Lyons]

your desperate and obsessive attacks on me.....
To disagree with, or make an opposing statement, is an attack? Do you think this forum is all about you? Do you know what you are? Seriously; and this is not an attack, it's what the experts (like you always cite) describe someone of your caliber: You're a bully; nothing but a sorry, low-down bully; not only that but one with very thin skin. It's OK if YOU put someone down with hateful words, names and epitaphs, but if someone returns the favor, they're engaging in "desperate and obsessive attacks", lying, flubbing, plus whatever cutesy put-down words you've mastered over the years, and finally they must be that certain person who resides in your head--Yep, Vrede, you're a bully. Plain and simple (pun intended), a low down, school-yard level, immature bully. Grow up, little boy.

Now, it appears I overlooked the Wiki account of blacks being the migrants Vrede mentioned. I did read the Wiki page, but I did not do further research on the subject in order to prove or disprove his claims. As for the "pulling sensationalized facts" remark, I thought that would be language Vrede would surely understand, as it is the type of speech he specifically uses when replying to others.
Anyway, Vrede shines, as usual. The gold button is in the mail.

[Vrede too]

As usual, the exposure of Leo Lyons' poor comprehension, lie about having read the Wiki article, projection of his own frequent factual fails, and false claim that I had invented not just "black" but also "migrant" (he's lying anew about that), become reason not for contrition, but rather for a raging, whiny tantrum. It must be awful to be so sackless and immature.

[Leo Lyons]

As usual, the exposure of Leo Lyons' poor comprehension, lie about having read the Wiki article, projection of his own frequent factual fails, and false claim that I had invented not just "black" but also "migrant" (he's lying anew about that), become reason not for contrition, but rather for a raging, whiny tantrum. It must be awful to be so sackless and immature.

Leo Lyons' poor comprehension...
lie about having read...
projection of his own frequent factual fails...
false claim...
he's lying anew....
a raging, whiny tantrum...
so sackless and immature...

I have to admit your years of belittling others has a much more experienced level than I could ever muster. You must have earned a degree in narcissism, either that, or as I saw written elsewhere, you were bullied at home and you learned quickly. I agree, it must be awful to be so sackless and immature; who knows? One day that little immature child in you might grow up to be a man. One day. Maybe.

[billy.pilgrim]

so, a surge out of the lake would have to return to the lake.

Not in an area with as little topography as central FL. Plus, water that's been disbursed over hundreds of square miles can't be forced into a surge wall like ocean, bay or lake water can.

people opposite the surge would have had an emptied lake full of fish floundering around in shallow pools.

Maybe, but the storm was still raging. I can't imagine that many folks went "fishing" in the middle of it. As soon as the storm passed the lake would have reverted to its now significantly depleted norm.

I'm still liking the family story I heard from the ex's grandfather - he would have been in his early 30s and I may have to go back and read the Douglas book.

The Wiki article has tons of sources. Maybe what you're looking for is in one of them.

wiki is generally a good source (when republicans aren't changing entries), I am a little curious how the article seems to claim wind speed changes so accurately, even using the Saffir–Simpson hurricane wind scale almost 50 years before it existed to describe the wind speed changes.

[Vrede too]

wiki is generally a good source (when republicans aren't changing entries), I am a little curious how the article seems to claim wind speed changes so accurately, even using the Saffir–Simpson hurricane wind scale almost 50 years before it existed to describe the wind speed changes.

I wouldn't know. A GUESS is wind gauges and wind speed estimates based on damage like they still do with tornadoes.

[Vrede too]

Dang, billy.pilgrim.

Hurricane Michael

Let us know you're okay after it passes.

[billy.pilgrim]

Dang, billy.pilgrim.

Hurricane Michael

Let us know you're okay after it passes.

Hoping they are right about the turn to the east, but feeling a little sorry for people in the Big Bend area - and my friends at the Riverside Cafe in St. Marks and Hutton's food truck (best in the world) outside Panacea.


Dickhead governor is acting more like trump every day. He's all over the TV talking about his hurricane being the worse in DECADES. Reckon he forgot about 2004:and 2005 - or it could be a math thing.

[Leo Lyons]

Dickhead governor is acting more like trump every day. He's all over the TV talking about his hurricane being the worse in DECADES. Reckon he forgot about 2004:and 2005 - or it could be a math thing.

Nah, he's just being a dickhead in your book because he's a Republican. If the gov was a Dem, you'd be gushing all over the forum pages.

Anyhow, stay safe, you ornery 'ol cuss! :thumbsup:

[billy.pilgrim]

Dickhead governor is acting more like trump every day. He's all over the TV talking about his hurricane being the worse in DECADES. Reckon he forgot about 2004:and 2005 - or it could be a math thing.

Nah, he's just being a dickhead in your book because he's a Republican. If the gov was a Dem, you'd be gushing all over the forum pages.

Anyhow, stay safe, you ornery 'ol cuss! :thumbsup:

Thanks, I should be fine, if I can ever get these shutters up at a rental and go home.

Just heard cat 4 at landfall between Destin and Apalachicola.


Not quite true. Rick will never overcome having stolen a billion dollars from Medicare and plead the 5th about it in court, passed law to benefit his wife's business, forbad any government employee from using the term climate change or lose their job, left millions without access to health care.

As for his mostly hollow storm hero photo ops, it may get him elected to the Senate, but he still sucks.

[Vrede too]

Funny, I could have sworn that I've seen billy.pilgrim rag on Dems when warranted. Must be my poor memory.

[Vrede too]

Hoping they are right about the turn to the east, but feeling a little sorry for people in the Big Bend area - and my friends at the Riverside Cafe in St. Marks and Hutton's food truck (best in the world) outside Panacea.

Dickhead governor is acting more like trump every day. He's all over the TV talking about his hurricane being the worse in DECADES. Reckon he forgot about 2004 and 2005 - or it could be a math thing.

weather.com headlines:

Hurricane Michael May Be Florida Panhandle's Strongest Landfall in 13 Years With Life-Threatening Storm Surge, Damaging Winds, Flooding Rain
17 hours ago

Hurricane Michael Just Hours Away From a Catastrophic, Unprecedented Florida Panhandle, Big Bend Category 4 Landfall
less than an hour ago



Ugh.

Then Tropical Storm Nadine?

I don't know if last year was or this year will be record breakers, but it wouldn't surprise me if this is one of the worst 2 year periods.