The Religion Thread

[billy.pilgrim]

https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/504 ... an-atheist

And for a different view.......

they created - says it all

"He tells me, “You can learn a lot about the psychology of the writers of the Old Testament when you look at the God they’re creating. It seems like he’s a projection of their own desire for patriarchal wealth and control.” In Barker’s view, the anti-egalitarian ideas contained in the Bible stem from this desire. “Religion is really a tool to control not just the access to females but also to control their lives,” he tells me.'

[1 CAT FAN]

There is another who knows man has been granted the gift of free will. He uses it to influence man to turn away from GOD.

Dan Barker's quotes:https://carm.org/atheism/list-quotes-dan-barker

[1 CAT FAN]

The Case for Christ - Short Film

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvTNFrjPjC0

[O Really]

So CAT - when you get back with us on the requirement to use all caps for "GOD", could you explain why the same requirement wouldn't apply to JESUS and CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT since they're all one and the same?

[1 CAT FAN]

I don’t recall saying it is a requirement. You can use lower case if you like. Did you read some of Dan Barker’s ridiculous statements?

[O Really]

I don’t recall saying it is a requirement. You can use lower case if you like. Did you read some of Dan Barker’s ridiculous statements?

I'd never heard of Dan Barker, but I read the quotes. No more or less ridiculous than most all the other arguments for and against the existence of god occurring among philosophers, theologians, and regular people for centuries. In fact, most arguments for and against all all the same, with different terminology. It's not dissimilar to the question about whether a tree falling in the forest if nobody hears it, does it have sound. You could argue either way depending on how you define "sound."

So why do you put GOD in all caps and not the other members of the TRINITY?

[Vrede too]

I'd never heard of Dan Barker ...

You probably know him by his title, Carnival Barker.

"1 CAT FAN" is in all caps, too. Could be claiming the same holiness as "GOD", or could just be a sign of nonreligious immaturity and desperation.

[neoplacebo]

In my American history book that I am now reading (789 pages) I just this morning got to the Scopes trial about the teaching of evolution in, yep, TN. William Jennings Bryan for the prosecution and Clarence Darrow for the defense. Scopes was found guilty as all assumed; he broke the law. But there was some comment written about the trial by Walter Lippman and he imagined that Thomas Jefferson (realist) and Bryan (fundamentalist) present their case to Socrates. Lippman wrote"
JEFFERSON; And what do you conclude from all this?
SOCRATES; That the common people hate reason, and that reason is the religion of an elite, of great gentlemen like yourself.
BRYAN' Reason is a religion? What do you mean?
SOCRATES; The common people have always known that reason is a religion. That is why they dislike it so violently.

[O Really]

People don't argue over the existence of god, but over their own definition of God.

[Vrede too]

People don't argue over the existence of god, but over their own definition of God.

Not both or either?

[O Really]

People don't argue over the existence of god, but over their own definition of God.

Not both or either?

Well, consider: going back to Aquinas or before, all the well-known arguments are over the Christian version. Go back to Plato and Aristotle, and there of course was no Christian version, and referral in Greek literature was to "the gods" lower case. There are some people who would argue that no god exists no matter what the name, but even there they are still defining what they believe does not exist.

[1 CAT FAN]

When asked if these atheist churches could be described as a form of religion, the founder of the Seattle Atheist Church responded with a definite ‘yes.’

https://seattleatheist.church/

[1 CAT FAN]

.....a sign of nonreligious immaturity and desperation.

What was it that I said about your addiction?

[1 CAT FAN]

Good news out of Alabama...

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2018/au ... t-displays

[O Really]

I wouldn't count those chickens yet, CAT - in decades of precedent, "In God We Trust" is not the same as "Ten Commandments." The 4th through the 10th are certainly good principles applicable to most everybody, but 1-3 are a bit too sectarian for promotion by a governmental entity. Of course, I'm sure the good people of Alabama intend to post words of wisdom from other religions, too, as a means of broad education, so all should be well.

[Vrede too]

I just finished reading Dan Brown's The Lost Symbol. Not something I would have picked out. I inherited it and read it on a whim. Also not a book I'd recommend - he's an okay story teller, but kinda preachy, kinda hippie New Age and it's not that great as a thriller. Guess I'm not the only one to feel this way:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Symbol#Reception

However, one passage stood out to me as relevant to many of the discussions we've had here, especially the bold sentence:

From The Crusades, to the Inquisition, to American politics--the name Jesus has been hijacked as an ally in all kinds of power struggles. Since the beginning of time, the ignorant had always screamed the loudest, herding the unsuspecting masses and forcing them to do their bidding. They defended their worldly desires by citing the Scripture they did not understand. They celebrated their intolerance as proof of their convictions. Now, after all these years, mankind has finally managed to utterly erode everything that had once been so beautiful about Jesus.
— p. 327

[Vrede too]

Steve King relates to Jesus Christ's suffering after backlash over 'white supremacy' quote

So, Jesus was a dimwitted rightwing racist from Iowa? I never knew.

[O Really]

For most people, if you want to know what, say, Aristotle said, you read Aristotle. Christians, though, for some reason seem to be comfortable running their lives not on what Jesus was actually reported to have said, but on what somebody centuries later said they thought Jesus might have said or might have wanted. F'rinstance, find where Jesus said not to eat meat of Friday as a way to honor his having given his flesh on Friday.

[GoCubsGo]

For most people, if you want to know what, say, Aristotle said, you read Aristotle. Christians, though, for some reason seem to be comfortable running their lives not on what Jesus was actually reported to have said, but on what somebody centuries later said they thought Jesus might have said or might have wanted. F'rinstance, find where Jesus said not to eat meat of Friday as a way to honor his having given his flesh on Friday.

Doesn't that describe, like most of the New Testament?

[O Really]

For most people, if you want to know what, say, Aristotle said, you read Aristotle. Christians, though, for some reason seem to be comfortable running their lives not on what Jesus was actually reported to have said, but on what somebody centuries later said they thought Jesus might have said or might have wanted. F'rinstance, find where Jesus said not to eat meat of Friday as a way to honor his having given his flesh on Friday.

Doesn't that describe, like most of the New Testament?

Well, yes, in particular because it was written by others long after Jesus was gone. But I'd ignore that and believe for sake of discussion that direct quotes were reasonably accurate. For example, here are a couple of statements attributed directly to Jesus:

"But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
or

"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

That doesn't sound a lot like the Christians supporting Trump. Doesn't sound a lot like the Christians who shun those who they see as "unbelievers."