2020 Elections

[O Really]

If Biden wins and just appoints good people and lets them do their jobs, he'll be renowned in history as the great fixer. The bar is set so low that just showing up in the office, not insulting people, and being able to read a literate-sounding speech will make him look like a super-statesman.

[O Really]

Good Kos article here about Bernie! and his campaign. Continues along my previous viewpoint that Bernie! isn't bothering to try to broaden his appeal. Turns out his campaign strategy really was to keep his 30% and thought he could get enough delegates to win. And so far, the strategy has worked in keeping his 30%, but has been not so successful in winning delegates.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3 ... g-minority

[neoplacebo]

I didn't vote in the primary but if I had I would have voted for Warren

She did get 10.4% of the TN vote and a delegate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Tenn ... ic_primary
Apparently, TN and other states including NC don't have the 15% minimum to get a delegate that I thought they did.

I don't know either. I have never voted in the primary elections; always just defer to the party nominee after the convention.

Same until this time. I'm ashamed to say I used to only vote in the presidential elections. Now I vote as much as I can.

I always vote in state wide and presidential elections but have never been enthused enough about any particular candidate to vote in a primary or otherwise advocate for any single person running for office. I do not foresee this changing.

[billy.pilgrim]

I didn't vote in the primary but if I had I would have voted for Warren

She did get 10.4% of the TN vote and a delegate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Tenn ... ic_primary
Apparently, TN and other states including NC don't have the 15% minimum to get a delegate that I thought they did.

I don't know either. I have never voted in the primary elections; always just defer to the party nominee after the convention.

Same until this time. I'm ashamed to say I used to only vote in the presidential elections. Now I vote as much as I can.

I always vote in state wide and presidential elections but have never been enthused enough about any particular candidate to vote in a primary or otherwise advocate for any single person running for office. I do not foresee this changing.

Same for me, although I do wish that I had voted for Hillary in the 2008 primary. She wouldn't have backed down to the repugs so easily.

[neoplacebo]

I don't know that it's too left in itself. As far as I know, he never made much effort to explain/educate or improve the image of "democratic socialist." Instead, he just absorbed the comparisons to Soviets, Venezuela, yada and "failure of communism." And then he comes out with the easily misunderstood defence of Castro's regime........

The other day I mentioned that I figure Bernie is "too radical" to win the general election. That is mainly due to the general ignorance of the electorate. A good example of this is all the howling criticism he got after giving a nod to Castro for establishing a literacy initiative soon after taking over Cuba. A literacy program in itself is a fine thing to have; but when it's tied to an authoritarian figure, it suddenly becomes something to fear or denigrate. When Hitler was elected in 1933 the German economy was on the verge of collapse. Hitler revived it and within ten years the German economy was probably the strongest in Europe. The fact that this was done by a fascist dictator didn't matter at the time (say from 33 to 38). Ordinary Germans, as well as the military class, cheered this and considered it great compared to the period 1918 to 1933. The same thing is evident in the trump cult; without fail, cultists and sycophants and racist bigots all point to the US economy as proof of how great trump is, not realizing that the same sort of parallels exist with trump and Hitler. They are both charismatic fools who mask their ultimate goals with an illusory cloak of imagined progress with a subplot of racist xenophobia and bigotry. And I think if trump wins in November this Hitler parallel will become immediately and alarmingly evident even to the cultists. By then it will likely be too late to fix.

[Vrede too]

The three worst congressional actions in my lifetime, not in any order, are the vote to acquit 45SHOLE, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution and the Iraq War Resolution. Some lapses in judgment have such dire consequences that they are unforgivable, Joe.

The Patriot Act vote is up there, too, but with the Senate vote being 98 to 1 - Feingold (D-WI) Nay, Landrieu (D-LA) Not Voting - it’s difficult to single Joe out. Some tax cut bills have also been pretty lousy, but there are enough of them, some with reauthorizations, that I don’t include them in my list. Not sure how Joe voted on these.

Any that y’all would add to the list?

[Vrede too]

Same for me, although I do wish that I had voted for Hillary in the 2008 primary. She wouldn't have backed down to the repugs so easily.

Not sure about that, though it is a valid opinion to have given what transpired later. After all, Hillary started off more con than Obama and along with Joe had caved in to the Repugs on the Iraq War Resolution, which was an important reason that Dems chose Obama.

I had supported Dennis Kucinich early, but NC had a very late primary back then. I'm pretty sure that I voted for Obama when it was just him and Hillary, but I might have "wasted" a vote.

Buncombe County (Asheville) chose Obama, but my Henderson County and other nearby ones chose Hillary. NC went for Obama, but only by a 67-48 pledged delegate margin.

Florida went solidly for Hillary 105-67, plus 13 for Edwards, but your Escambia County bucked the Hillary and Edwards Panhandle trend and chose Obama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Demo ... _primaries

[neoplacebo]

The three worst congressional actions in my lifetime, not in any order, are the vote to acquit 45SHOLE, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution and the Iraq War Resolution. Some lapses in judgment have such dire consequences that they are unforgivable, Joe.

The Patriot Act vote is up there, too, but with the Senate vote being 98 to 1 - Feingold (D-WI) Nay, Landrieu (D-LA) Not Voting - it’s difficult to single Joe out. Some tax cut bills have also been pretty lousy, but there are enough of them, some with reauthorizations, that I don’t include them in my list. Not sure how Joe voted on these.

Any that y’all would add to the list?

The Alien and Sedition Act, originally passed in 1798. This was used to inter or deport Japanese, German, and Italian American citizens in the 1940's and as far as I know is still on the books. Probably the longest running travesty in US history.

[Vrede too]

... in my lifetime ...

The Alien and Sedition Act, originally passed in 1798. This was used to inter or deport Japanese, German, and Italian American citizens in the 1940's and as far as I know is still on the books. Probably the longest running travesty in US history.

Dayyum, you are really really old . Lookin' good, though.

Alien and Sedition Acts

... The acts were denounced by Democratic-Republicans and ultimately helped them to victory in the 1800 election, when Thomas Jefferson defeated the incumbent, President Adams. The Sedition Act and the Alien Friends Act were allowed to expire in 1800 and 1801, respectively. The Alien Enemies Act, however, remains in effect as Chapter 3; Sections 21–24 of Title 50 of the United States Code. It was used by the government to identify and imprison dangerous enemy aliens from Germany, Japan, and Italy in World War II. (This was separate from the Japanese internment camps used to remove people of Japanese descent from the West Coast.) After the war they were deported to their home countries. In 1948 the Supreme Court determined that presidential powers under the acts continued after cessation of hostilities until there was a peace treaty with the hostile nation. The revised Alien Enemies Act remains in effect today.

... In 2015, presidential candidate Donald Trump made a proposal to ban foreign Muslims from entering the United States (as part of the War on Terror); Roosevelt's application of the Alien Enemies Act was cited as a possible justification. The proposal created international controversy, drawing criticism from foreign heads of state that have historically remained uninvolved in United States presidential elections. A former Reagan Administration aide noted that, despite criticism of Trump's proposal to invoke the law, "the Alien Enemies Act ... is still on the books ... (and people) in Congress for many decades (haven't) repealed the law ... (nor has) Barack Obama". Other critics claimed that the proposal violated founding principles, and was unconstitutional for singling out a religion, and not a hostile nation. They included the Pentagon and others, who argued that the proposal (and its citation of the Alien Enemies proclamations as authority) played into the ISIL narrative that the United States was at war with the entire Muslim religion (not just with ISIL and other terrorist entities). On June 26, 2018, in the 5–4 decision Trump v. Hawaii, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld Presidential Proclamation 9645, the third version of President Trump's travel ban, with the majority opinion being written by Chief Justice John Roberts.

[billy.pilgrim]

The three worst congressional actions in my lifetime, not in any order, are the vote to acquit 45SHOLE, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution and the Iraq War Resolution. Some lapses in judgment have such dire consequences that they are unforgivable, Joe.

The Patriot Act vote is up there, too, but with the Senate vote being 98 to 1 - Feingold (D-WI) Nay, Landrieu (D-LA) Not Voting - it’s difficult to single Joe out. Some tax cut bills have also been pretty lousy, but there are enough of them, some with reauthorizations, that I don’t include them in my list. Not sure how Joe voted on these.

Any that y’all would add to the list?

What other choice was there in Tonkin? I agree wholeheartedly with the other two being at the top of any Worst list because they were so arbitrary, but Johnson's choice was to do the right thing and investigate to be sure before doing anything and turn the WH over to nixon in 64 (congress had to follow the facts? from the president) or Johnson and Congress could do the morally wrong thing and escalate a war that once and for all ended any charade about promoting democracy and human rights in other countries, further divide the country and keep the WH.

Because all choices were wrong, this major fuckup doesn't make my top ten as a bad choice - there wasn't a choice. It's still in the top 3 when defining merican evil arrogance.

[billy.pilgrim]

Congress has made major screwups, but few have the effects that secret deals and wars brought on by presidents and presidential candidates.

Ike started the American War in Viet Nam when he secretly convinced the South's president to violate the treaty.

Nixon's other se asia wars

Candidate reagan admin illegal secret deal with iran

President Reagan's illegal wars in central America

Bush's lies to start the oil wars

trump - ? war with china, or maybe that country where obama was born - who knows where all we are fighting now.

[neoplacebo]

... in my lifetime ...

The Alien and Sedition Act, originally passed in 1798. This was used to inter or deport Japanese, German, and Italian American citizens in the 1940's and as far as I know is still on the books. Probably the longest running travesty in US history.

Dayyum, you are really really old . Lookin' good, though.

Alien and Sedition Acts

... The acts were denounced by Democratic-Republicans and ultimately helped them to victory in the 1800 election, when Thomas Jefferson defeated the incumbent, President Adams. The Sedition Act and the Alien Friends Act were allowed to expire in 1800 and 1801, respectively. The Alien Enemies Act, however, remains in effect as Chapter 3; Sections 21–24 of Title 50 of the United States Code. It was used by the government to identify and imprison dangerous enemy aliens from Germany, Japan, and Italy in World War II. (This was separate from the Japanese internment camps used to remove people of Japanese descent from the West Coast.) After the war they were deported to their home countries. In 1948 the Supreme Court determined that presidential powers under the acts continued after cessation of hostilities until there was a peace treaty with the hostile nation. The revised Alien Enemies Act remains in effect today.

... In 2015, presidential candidate Donald Trump made a proposal to ban foreign Muslims from entering the United States (as part of the War on Terror); Roosevelt's application of the Alien Enemies Act was cited as a possible justification. The proposal created international controversy, drawing criticism from foreign heads of state that have historically remained uninvolved in United States presidential elections. A former Reagan Administration aide noted that, despite criticism of Trump's proposal to invoke the law, "the Alien Enemies Act ... is still on the books ... (and people) in Congress for many decades (haven't) repealed the law ... (nor has) Barack Obama". Other critics claimed that the proposal violated founding principles, and was unconstitutional for singling out a religion, and not a hostile nation. They included the Pentagon and others, who argued that the proposal (and its citation of the Alien Enemies proclamations as authority) played into the ISIL narrative that the United States was at war with the entire Muslim religion (not just with ISIL and other terrorist entities). On June 26, 2018, in the 5–4 decision Trump v. Hawaii, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld Presidential Proclamation 9645, the third version of President Trump's travel ban, with the majority opinion being written by Chief Justice John Roberts.

Doh! Guess I overlooked the time factor here......

[Vrede too]

I agree with your list and the fact that executive actions can be horrendous. Mine was limited to congressional action since Biden was my topic. It's true that we can hold him somewhat accountable for Obama's executive actions, good and bad, but we can't really know Biden's role behind the scenes in most of them.

The three worst congressional actions in my lifetime, not in any order, are the vote to acquit 45SHOLE, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution and the Iraq War Resolution. Some lapses in judgment have such dire consequences that they are unforgivable, Joe.

The Patriot Act vote is up there, too, but with the Senate vote being 98 to 1 - Feingold (D-WI) Nay, Landrieu (D-LA) Not Voting - it’s difficult to single Joe out. Some tax cut bills have also been pretty lousy, but there are enough of them, some with reauthorizations, that I don’t include them in my list. Not sure how Joe voted on these.

Any that y’all would add to the list?

What other choice was there in Tonkin? I agree wholeheartedly with the other two being at the top of any Worst list because they were so arbitrary, but Johnson's choice was to do the right thing and investigate to be sure before doing anything and turn the WH over to nixon in 64 (congress had to follow the facts? from the president) or Johnson and Congress could do the morally wrong thing and escalate a war that once and for all ended any charade about promoting democracy and human rights in other countries, further divide the country and keep the WH.

Because all choices were wrong, this major fuckup doesn't make my top ten as a bad choice - there wasn't a choice. It's still in the top 3 when defining merican evil arrogance.

I am way confused by your response.

There was no "investigate to be sure". It was a partially faked incident, and the fact that our ships were engaged in coastal acts of war that merited NV self-defense was kept covered up. The full truth only came out many many years later.
Nixon was not a candidate in 1964.
With the Tonkin Gulf Resolution as authorization LBJ did "do the morally wrong thing and escalate a war," almost immediately.

Maybe there was no political choice for congressmembers, but the consequences were so severe at home and in Vietnam - 2 to 3 million dead - that it stays on my list.

[Vrede too]

Doh! Guess I overlooked the time factor here......

Don't beat yourself up too bad. I posted about the Alien Enemies Act, what remains of the Alien and Sedition Acts, because congressional acquiescence in Dolt .45's bigotry and xenophobia is also awful, even if we can't easily point to specific votes.

[O Really]

The three worst congressional actions in my lifetime, not in any order, are the vote to acquit 45SHOLE, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution and the Iraq War Resolution. Some lapses in judgment have such dire consequences that they are unforgivable, Joe.

It would be helpful if all bills were restricted to one topic. Then you could look at a vote and say it's right or wrong, wise or stupid. But of course real life politics doesn't work that way. By the time a bill is up for final vote, it's collected a bunch of barnacles and a bunch of negotiated/compromised content - very rarely a pure bill on a topic. Time, specific facts and circumstances matter. F'rinstance, I would happily forgive Nixon for his evilness if we could have traded four years of Trump for him.

[billy.pilgrim]

I agree with your list and the fact that executive actions can be horrendous. Mine was limited to congressional action since Biden was my topic. It's true that we can hold him somewhat accountable for Obama's executive actions, good and bad, but we can't really know Biden's role behind the scenes in most of them.

The three worst congressional actions in my lifetime, not in any order, are the vote to acquit 45SHOLE, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution and the Iraq War Resolution. Some lapses in judgment have such dire consequences that they are unforgivable, Joe.

The Patriot Act vote is up there, too, but with the Senate vote being 98 to 1 - Feingold (D-WI) Nay, Landrieu (D-LA) Not Voting - it’s difficult to single Joe out. Some tax cut bills have also been pretty lousy, but there are enough of them, some with reauthorizations, that I don’t include them in my list. Not sure how Joe voted on these.

Any that y’all would add to the list?

What other choice was there in Tonkin? I agree wholeheartedly with the other two being at the top of any Worst list because they were so arbitrary, but Johnson's choice was to do the right thing and investigate to be sure before doing anything and turn the WH over to nixon in 64 (congress had to follow the facts? from the president) or Johnson and Congress could do the morally wrong thing and escalate a war that once and for all ended any charade about promoting democracy and human rights in other countries, further divide the country and keep the WH.

Because all choices were wrong, this major fuckup doesn't make my top ten as a bad choice - there wasn't a choice. It's still in the top 3 when defining merican evil arrogance.

I am way confused by your response.

There was no "investigate to be sure". It was a partially faked incident, and the fact that our ships were engaged in coastal acts of war that merited NV self-defense was kept covered up. The full truth only came out many many years later.
Nixon was not a candidate in 1964.
With the Tonkin Gulf Resolution as authorization LBJ did "do the morally wrong thing and escalate a war," almost immediately.

Maybe there was no political choice for congressmembers, but the consequences were so severe at home and in Vietnam - 2 to 3 million dead - that it stays on my list.

My bad, Goldwater - how could I forget.

Something happened at Tonkin, Johnson had to do something or lose the election.

Of course it's high on the list of evil shit, but (to me) this is more on a Had To list than the oil wars and the various arbitrary overthrowing of democracies around the world. That list includes the planning and intent to commit atrocities. On that list, #1 is overthrowing democracy in iran and the millions who continue to die as a result.

[neoplacebo]

Hell, Johnson would have won in 64 just on the sympathy for Kennedy angle. Doesn't absolve him of blame for the Vietnam fiasco though.

[Vrede too]

Hell, Johnson would have won in 64 just on the sympathy for Kennedy angle. Doesn't absolve him of blame for the Vietnam fiasco though.

Agreed. Obviously, there are more complete histories than Wiki, but I'm unaware of any suggestion that Goldwater ever had a chance in hell of winning an election where LBJ ended up with "61% of the popular vote, the highest percentage since the popular vote first became widespread in 1824. In the end, Goldwater won only his native state of Arizona and five Deep South states—Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina—which had been increasingly alienated by Democratic civil rights policies."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Unit ... on#Results
I also find it difficult to believe that a confusing, partially made up incident off the coast of a country that few Americans yet knew anything about ever could have been a tipping point. We passed the Resolution and massively expanded the War because we are bloodthirsty imperialists, not to get LBJ elected.

[O Really]

Goldwater was an early adopter - maybe the originator - of the hidden/silent voter theory. He believed there were hordes of conservative potential voters out there that never had a candidate to vote for, and who would come out of the woodwork for him. Opps. But the "bring in new voters" myth still persists to today. Right Bernie!?

[neoplacebo]

Goldwater was an early adopter - maybe the originator - of the hidden/silent voter theory. He believed there were hordes of conservative potential voters out there that never had a candidate to vote for, and who would come out of the woodwork for him. Opps. But the "bring in new voters" myth still persists to today. Right Bernie!?

No doubt; Goldwater was the original wingunt, nutjob, reactionary white savior candidate pandering to the original perpetual victim class. He was ahead of his time, or at least ahead of his dumbfuckery.