The LEO thread

[billy.pilgrim]

How about instead of the taxpayers paying for the cop crimes, let the settlements, claims, attorney fees, etc. come out of the regular budget and pensions.

Might stop some of the love they show their own lawbreakers.

[O Really]

How about instead of the taxpayers paying for the cop crimes, let the settlements, claims, attorney fees, etc. come out of the regular budget and pensions.

Might stop some of the love they show their own lawbreakers.

Or let the union defend its own.

Goes like this:
1. Cop does something awful.
2. City fires them.
3. Union file grievance over firing.
4. If city wins, it will not spend any money to defend cop if s/he is charged.

[Vrede too]

[Vrede too]

Minnesota Law Officers Acknowledge Slashing Tires At Minneapolis Protest

:confusion-scratchheadblue:

Also, discussion of:

Journalists have repeatedly been targeted by law enforcement officers as they cover protests across the country.

[billy.pilgrim]

is that 1cat who gets picked up by his ears?

[Vrede too]

is that 1cat who gets picked up by his ears?

No, your billyness.

[billy.pilgrim]

is that 1cat who gets picked up by his ears?

No, your billyness.

Then that him doing the picking.

[billy.pilgrim]

one Floriduh country has the answer to police misconduct.

more specifically focused on the hardships endured by those poor pigs who committed such egregious attacks on civilians that they lost their jobs, Brevard county says, send us your worse, we'll hire 'em, plus we have lots of old people for you to push down.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/breva ... index.html

[1 CAT FAN]

Remember the Beatles' movie, "Yellow Submarine"?

Chapman’s next scheduled parole hearing is on 2020.
https://societyofrock.com/facts-about-j ... now-about/
Back in 2018, the parole board denied his petition for the 10th time. The board also wrote to him the following: “You admittedly carefully planned and executed the murder of a world-famous person for no reason other than to gain notoriety. While no one person’s life is any more valuable than another’s life, the fact that you chose someone who was not only a world-renowned person and beloved by millions, regardless of pain and suffering you would cause to his family, friends, and so many others, you demonstrated a callous disregard for the sanctity of human life and the pain and suffering of others. This fact remains a concern to this panel.”

Except that it probably didn't happen.

[billy.pilgrim]

Remember the Beatles' movie, "Yellow Submarine"?

Chapman’s next scheduled parole hearing is on 2020.
https://societyofrock.com/facts-about-j ... now-about/
Back in 2018, the parole board denied his petition for the 10th time. The board also wrote to him the following: “You admittedly carefully planned and executed the murder of a world-famous person for no reason other than to gain notoriety. While no one person’s life is any more valuable than another’s life, the fact that you chose someone who was not only a world-renowned person and beloved by millions, regardless of pain and suffering you would cause to his family, friends, and so many others, you demonstrated a callous disregard for the sanctity of human life and the pain and suffering of others. This fact remains a concern to this panel.”

Except that it probably didn't happen.

Is there something at your link that a cop did right?


nah, didn't think so, cops are pigs, all they do is eat and make noise

[Vrede too]

one Floriduh country has the answer to police misconduct.

more specifically focused on the hardships endured by those poor pigs who committed such egregious attacks on civilians that they lost their jobs, Brevard county says, send us your worse, we'll hire 'em, plus we have lots of old people for you to push down.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/breva ... index.html

Not exactly.

... On Saturday, the Brevard County chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police posted a message on Facebook addressed to the "Buffalo 57" and "Atlanta 6," saying that it was "hiring."

... Both posts have since been deleted and the Brevard County F.O.P did not return CNN's request for comment.

But in comments to Florida Today, Brevard County F.O.P. President Bert Gamin claimed responsibility for the post regarding the Buffalo and Atlanta police officers and defended them....

Gamin, according to his LinkedIn page, has been a lieutenant with the Brevard County Sheriff's Office for 26 years, but Brevard County Sheriff Wayne Ivey distanced his office from the union.

"The 'Brevard County F.O.P.' page and organization has no official affiliation with the Brevard County Sheriff's Office and was not authorized in any capacity by me or our agency to recruit or comment on our behalf!!" Sheriff Wayne Ivey said in a statement posted to the sheriff's office's Facebook page.

Ivey added that the comments made by the union were "extremely distasteful and insensitive" to "critical issues that are occurring across our country," and that his office "does not condone" the content in any way.

Tod Goodyear, spokesman for the sheriff's office, told CNN that the department is currently trying to determine whether Gamin violated any policies.

"Although we find the comments he made disturbing, there are still some protections provided by the constitution on free speech," Goodyear said. "If there was a violation of policy, I'm sure it will be dealt with." ...

[1 CAT FAN]

Remember the Beatles' movie, "Yellow Submarine"?

Chapman’s next scheduled parole hearing is on 2020.
https://societyofrock.com/facts-about-j ... now-about/
Back in 2018, the parole board denied his petition for the 10th time. The board also wrote to him the following: “You admittedly carefully planned and executed the murder of a world-famous person for no reason other than to gain notoriety. While no one person’s life is any more valuable than another’s life, the fact that you chose someone who was not only a world-renowned person and beloved by millions, regardless of pain and suffering you would cause to his family, friends, and so many others, you demonstrated a callous disregard for the sanctity of human life and the pain and suffering of others. This fact remains a concern to this panel.”

Except that it probably didn't happen.

Is there something at your link that a cop did right?


nah, didn't think so, cops are pigs, all they do is eat and make noise

It probably didn’t happen, billy. Although, the perpetrator of the crime is in prison.

[billy.pilgrim]

one Floriduh country has the answer to police misconduct.

more specifically focused on the hardships endured by those poor pigs who committed such egregious attacks on civilians that they lost their jobs, Brevard county says, send us your worse, we'll hire 'em, plus we have lots of old people for you to push down.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/breva ... index.html

Not exactly.

... On Saturday, the Brevard County chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police posted a message on Facebook addressed to the "Buffalo 57" and "Atlanta 6," saying that it was "hiring."

... Both posts have since been deleted and the Brevard County F.O.P did not return CNN's request for comment.

But in comments to Florida Today, Brevard County F.O.P. President Bert Gamin claimed responsibility for the post regarding the Buffalo and Atlanta police officers and defended them....

Gamin, according to his LinkedIn page, has been a lieutenant with the Brevard County Sheriff's Office for 26 years, but Brevard County Sheriff Wayne Ivey distanced his office from the union.

"The 'Brevard County F.O.P.' page and organization has no official affiliation with the Brevard County Sheriff's Office and was not authorized in any capacity by me or our agency to recruit or comment on our behalf!!" Sheriff Wayne Ivey said in a statement posted to the sheriff's office's Facebook page.

Ivey added that the comments made by the union were "extremely distasteful and insensitive" to "critical issues that are occurring across our country," and that his office "does not condone" the content in any way.

Tod Goodyear, spokesman for the sheriff's office, told CNN that the department is currently trying to determine whether Gamin violated any policies.

"Although we find the comments he made disturbing, there are still some protections provided by the constitution on free speech," Goodyear said. "If there was a violation of policy, I'm sure it will be dealt with." ...

But close. In any case, it's a bunch of pigs holding themselves above the law.

[Vrede too]

What the city where defunding police worked really tells us about it

... And that debate has quickly brought to light the shining example and metamorphosis of policing in Camden, New Jersey, a city that was once among the nation’s most dangerous with a homicide rate equivalent to that of El Salvador before a funding upheaval and list of reforms resulted in the lowest murder rate the town had seen since 1987. Add to the fact that local police have accomplished as much with a noted drop in use of lethal force and the viral image of its Chief of Police marching hand-in-hand with protesters, and it’s easy to see why people are quick to look to replicate it.

But digging deeper into how Camden was able to spark its amazing transformation reveals that substantive police reform has never been as simple as an issue of funding.

First, it’s worth defining “defunding the police” as policymakers are debating it. Despite some opponents fear mongering with scenes from the movie “The Purge,” in which all crimes are made legal for a 12-hour period, the policy has more to do with allocating a city’s funding away from policing and more towards efforts that might reduce the need for policing, such as mental health resources, public education, or employee training programs. As House Speaker Nancy Pelosi recently summarized, “what it means is [with] the resources that we have, let us spend it in a way that gives the most protection for the American people — protection for their safety, protection for their rights.” ...

It's not mentioned in the article, but this philosophy syncs with the idea of replacing our failed and costly drug war with public health oriented Harm Reduction.

[Vrede too]

Or let the union defend its own.

Goes like this:
1. Cop does something awful.
2. City fires them.
3. Union file grievance over firing.
4. If city wins, it will not spend any money to defend cop if s/he is charged.

Maybe you have insight. Unions should and do support their members with legal assistance, etc. However, I'm unaware of any besides police unions that take such an aggressive role in publicly defending bad behavior. Why is this?

[O Really]

Maybe you have insight. Unions should and do support their members with legal assistance, etc. However, I'm unaware of any besides police unions that take such an aggressive role in publicly defending bad behavior. Why is this?

I do indeed have insight. Police believe, with some justification, that they are vulnerable to random and frivolous complaints by citizens, and that the city doesn't support them adequately because of politics, lawsuits, etc. They feel misunderstood and underappreciated. They think their bosses (in the city councils) don't understand their job or their challenges. They don't like getting thrown under the bus when a jury acquits somebody they caught because of improper collection of evidence (for example), nevermind that the evidence collection really was improper. So they get this defensive attitude and think nobody understands them but each other and they have to protect each other regardless. So because a lot of the bad behaviour is publicized, the union spins the situation its own way. Most other unions aren't representing members whose wrongdoings are on the front page. The union's view is that it is their job to protect the member and to assure that s/he gets treated legally and fairly, guilty or not, and if they don't' take an aggressive approach, their guy will be railroaded. A look at the record overall, of course, would show that more often than not, a cop will get treated way better than any other employee doing similar stuff. The union would say that's because they're doing a good job.

BTW, the reason serious police reform has been difficult to accomplish is that cops also vote. And police unions are good at getting out the vote. So if a mayor or council members sit too hard on the cops' neck, they'll loudly and vigorously oppose them next election. All politicians want the police and fire vote. On numerous occasions in negotiations, the cops have said, for example, "we want some tanks" and I and the rest of the negotiating team say "nope, we're not buying you any tanks, but we'll get you some new cars." Union says "OK" but really still wants tanks. We think it's settled, then the mayor calls us in to discuss negotiations. He say, the cops really want some tanks. We say, we covered that and it's settled. Mayor says, maybe we should buy them some tanks, or at least one tank. We say we'd really rather not open that topic back up again. Mayor says, well we're going to budget to buy them a tank. So now, they're getting a tank, and didn't have to give up anything for it because we've already committed to the new cars. And then when the contract is settled, the mayor wants to know what the costs for the police department went up so much if we're such hotshot negotiators.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, fershure.

[Vrede too]

Maybe you have insight. Unions should and do support their members with legal assistance, etc. However, I'm unaware of any besides police unions that take such an aggressive role in publicly defending bad behavior. Why is this?

I do indeed have insight. Police believe, with some justification, that they are vulnerable to random and frivolous complaints by citizens, and that the city doesn't support them adequately because of politics, lawsuits, etc. They feel misunderstood and underappreciated. They think their bosses (in the city councils) don't understand their job or their challenges. They don't like getting thrown under the bus when a jury acquits somebody they caught because of improper collection of evidence (for example), nevermind that the evidence collection really was improper. So they get this defensive attitude and think nobody understands them but each other and they have to protect each other regardless. So because a lot of the bad behaviour is publicized, the union spins the situation its own way. Most other unions aren't representing members whose wrongdoings are on the front page. The union's view is that it is their job to protect the member and to assure that s/he gets treated legally and fairly, guilty or not, and if they don't' take an aggressive approach, their guy will be railroaded. A look at the record overall, of course, would show that more often than not, a cop will get treated way better than any other employee doing similar stuff. The union would say that's because they're doing a good job.

BTW, the reason serious police reform has been difficult to accomplish is that cops also vote. And police unions are good at getting out the vote. So if a mayor or council members sit too hard on the cops' neck, they'll loudly and vigorously oppose them next election. All politicians want the police and fire vote. On numerous occasions in negotiations, the cops have said, for example, "we want some tanks" and I and the rest of the negotiating team say "nope, we're not buying you any tanks, but we'll get you some new cars." Union says "OK" but really still wants tanks. We think it's settled, then the mayor calls us in to discuss negotiations. He say, the cops really want some tanks. We say, we covered that and it's settled. Mayor says, maybe we should buy them some tanks, or at least one tank. We say we'd really rather not open that topic back up again. Mayor says, well we're going to budget to buy them a tank. So now, they're getting a tank, and didn't have to give up anything for it because we've already committed to the new cars. And then when the contract is settled, the mayor wants to know what the costs for the police department went up so much if we're such hotshot negotiators.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, fershure.

Thanks.

If the only thing I knew about unions was police unions, I think that I would be anti-union. It's not we have hear teachers' unions defending diddling with students, etc.

[billy.pilgrim]

leo has good cause to be scared

https://youtu.be/ccxFNP2PhzM

[Vrede too]

I sure hammered the post above . Here:

Thanks.

If the only thing I knew about unions was police unions, I think that I would be anti-union. It's not like we hear about teachers' unions defending diddling with students, etc.

[O Really]

It occurred to me that CAT may have claimed to be/have been a cop. Dunno if that's true, don't care. But if he is/was, is he not the absolute poster child for why people are in the street? I'm pretty sure if he were a cop, he'd be one to shoot/hit/taser first upon the slightest hint of question. He certainly supports the idea that cop's authority and orders override any citizen rights. He personally looks at minorities and lib'ruls as defective and less worthy - which undoubtedly would affect his work to "protect and serve."

Probably he was never a real cop, maybe a mall cop or something. But it's good to have him around. When I start thinking maybe we're unfairly painting all cops with the same tar brush and dig up a little sympathy for the way the public is looking at them, I click "view" on one of his posts and it goes away.