Oklahoma executes inmate who dies vomiting and convulsing

[neoplacebo]

And the belted squirrel has spoken.

[GoCubsGo]

And the belted squirrel has spoken.

Belted squirrel?

[Vrede too]

Ulysses wrote:
Would I have spared McVeigh's life? Yes, if the law prohibited capital punishment at the time of his execution. And, for the 9/11 attackers, like I said, it is moot. They all died in the effort. Their leadership in Al Quaeda is another matter.
neo wrote:
It looks like your "convictions" are contingent on what is "legal" at the time. That means you have no convictions. And it also means you have no concept of justice. Justice is not malleable or reliant on misinterpreted reality.

No, my opinion is that the laws regarding capital punishment in many states still need to be changed.

Why can you not comprehend that?

Is it that your need to belittle and criticize is so great you cannot see what is written?

You just admitted that my theory of your "convictions" is accurate. You state "no, my opinion is that the laws regarding capital punishment.....need to be changed."

That affirms my original statement that your "convictions" are based on what is legal at the time. If your convictions were genuine, the concept of what is "legal" at any given point in time is irrelevant.

Why can you not comprehend that? And by comprehending it, you would realize that your convictions are not convictions at all if they're based on what is legal at the time. Convictions stand alone and independent of anything else. When you start making exceptions to your convictions, they are no longer convictions; just preferences.

Neo errs horribly in portraying opinion as conviction. And from that he proceeds to launch a scurrilous attack.

Figures.

I tire of this stupidity.

Your post was confusing. What you "Would ... have" done is not contingent on extant law. You are a capital punishment opponent, that doesn't change.

Why can you not comprehend that?

Is it that your need to belittle and criticize is so great you cannot see what you have written?

Cower, Useless, cower.

[neoplacebo]

And the belted squirrel has spoken.

Belted squirrel?

A seldom known and even less seldom bestowed honor to one who fancies himself a naturist but is in fact an insidious rascal of ample reputation.

[GoCubsGo]

And the belted squirrel has spoken.

Belted squirrel?

A seldom known and even less seldom bestowed honor to one who fancies himself a naturist but is in fact an insidious rascal of ample reputation.

As always you are a wealth of information.

I've been enlightened.

[neoplacebo]

And the belted squirrel has spoken.

Belted squirrel?

A seldom known and even less seldom bestowed honor to one who fancies himself a naturist but is in fact an insidious rascal of ample reputation.

As always you are a wealth of information.

I've been enlightened.

Many belted squirrels have died a horrid death vomiting and squirmvulsing (a combination of squirming and convulsing). Most regular squirrels have a firm idea if they're for or against the death penalty regardless of how many nuts fall off the tree or how many cats are about.

[GoCubsGo]

And the belted squirrel has spoken.

Belted squirrel?

A seldom known and even less seldom bestowed honor to one who fancies himself a naturist but is in fact an insidious rascal of ample reputation.

As always you are a wealth of information.

I've been enlightened.

Many belted squirrels have died a horrid death vomiting and squirmvulsing (a combination of squirming and convulsing). Most regular squirrels have a firm idea if they're for or against the death penalty regardless of how many nuts fall off the tree or how many cats are about.

:laughing-rofl:

Does that explain those frantic crazed squirrels I see every fall that play chicken with cars, trying to figure out which way to go on the road?

[Ulysses]

[O Really]

An effective capital punishment program:


Good article about the shot and the pic here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ret ... d-the-war/

[Leo Lyons]

Well, I don't agree. I believe the death penalty is an abomination. Even if the law says it's OK.
It makes the government that does the killing no better than whoever it is killing.

If I read correctly into many of your earlier posts, I'd assume you harbor some religious beliefs and/or principles;
although your particular denomination or sphere of beliefs escaped me.
The NT Bible speaks of capital punishment in the event of killing another; am I to assume you don't abide by or agree with
those teachings, despite the Bible's stating that man should obey laws and ordinances set forth by 'municipalities?'
Let's take the case of a pedophile (in whom I view as scum of the earth) that has kidnapped, repeatedly and brutally raped
a child before killing it. Should that person be given the privilege of being supported by the state for the rest of his life?
(putting aside what wrath would be faced in prison; he would still have his life)

Sorry, I disagree with all of you; I support capital punishment; no religious or political influences involved.
Nothing less should be afforded me if I willfully took the life of another.

[Leo Lyons]

I suspect appropriate prison procedures could have prevented that. I'd need to know more details of where and how. But offhand psych should have alerted prison authorities not to let this guy 1) Get access to a shiv, 2) Allowed into cafeteria 3) Allowed out of his cell. Just guessing. Poor prison management isn't an excuse for the death penalty.

Should'a
Would'a
Could'a

Just guessing?

[Leo Lyons]

Look, I'm mostly just holding up an alternate side of the conversation, but that doesn't make my logic wrong. People argue against the death penalty usually on some kind of moral grounds, of killing people being inherently wrong. OK fine. But if you really believe killing people is wrong, you can't go saying "well, not here, or not there." On the other hand, there are a lot of reasons to do away with the (sometimes) death (maybe) penalty laws we have now.

Now . . . Dylan Root?

[Leo Lyons]

An effective capital punishment program:
Good article about the shot and the pic here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ret ... d-the-war/

Not all countries coddle their prisoners like the U.S. does
Not all countries abide by rules of engagement
Not all countries (or ideologies) abide by rules for fair treatment of prisoners.
Not all countries . . . . . . . you know.

[O Really]

Look, I'm mostly just holding up an alternate side of the conversation, but that doesn't make my logic wrong. People argue against the death penalty usually on some kind of moral grounds, of killing people being inherently wrong. OK fine. But if you really believe killing people is wrong, you can't go saying "well, not here, or not there." On the other hand, there are a lot of reasons to do away with the (sometimes) death (maybe) penalty laws we have now.

Now . . . Dylan Root?

Actually, I don't have a problem with taking a proven incorrigible killer out back and dropping them like a horse. My problem with the current system (or lack thereof) is that it takes too long, is to ritualized, is wrapped in pomposity, and includes a frightfully large number of people whose guilt hasn't been proved with several miles of "without reasonable doubt."

[Vrede too]

Not all countries coddle their prisoners like the U.S. does
Not all countries abide by rules of engagement
Not all countries (or ideologies) abide by rules for fair treatment of prisoners.
Not all countries . . . . . . . you know.

Your patriotism involves having the US emulate the worst of nations?

Since you're speculating on others' motivations, I notice that your argument exclusively depends on a sense of vengeance, what the perp "deserves". I haven't see you describe any benefit to society from state killing.

[Ulysses]

Actually, I don't have a problem with taking a proven incorrigible killer out back and dropping them like a horse. My problem with the current system (or lack thereof) is that it takes too long, is to ritualized, is wrapped in pomposity, and includes a frightfully large number of people whose guilt hasn't been proved with several miles of "without reasonable doubt."

"...and includes a frightfully large number of people whose guilt hasn't been proved with several miles of "without reasonable doubt.""

Which is perhaps the main reason why I oppose the death penalty, with no exceptions.

And, to respond to Leo, I do not base my opinion on any particular religion. I view organized religions as poor substitutes for doing what is right. One need only look at all the wars fought in the name of God (or Allah, or Buddha, or whatever) to see how flawed they are when it comes to matters of life and death. Although I'm not aware of any wars fought in the name of Buddha. So there is that. But there has been plenty of bloodshed in India based on religious differences.

[O Really]

Just because a nation is among the worst doesn't mean that absolutely everything it does is bad. And "worst" is pretty relative.

[Vrede too]

... Although I'm not aware of any wars fought in the name of Buddha. So there is that. But there has been plenty of bloodshed in India based on religious differences.

That's largely Hindu-Muslim, but there's blood on Buddhist hands in India, too. In Myanmar there's also the largely Buddhist genocide and other crimes against the largely Muslim Rohingya people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar#G ... gya_people
Both are sad, I once thought more highly of Buddhists, too.

[Vrede too]

Not all countries coddle their prisoners like the U.S. does
Not all countries abide by rules of engagement
Not all countries (or ideologies) abide by rules for fair treatment of prisoners.
Not all countries . . . . . . . you know.

Your patriotism involves having the US emulate the worst of nations? ...

Just because a nation is among the worst doesn't mean that absolutely everything it does is bad. And "worst" is pretty relative.

Agreed, but in this instance I was defining "worst" solely by Leo Lyons's listed parameters.

You are correct that there's another way of looking at it:
Capital punishment by country
Total executed in 2020
China 1000+
Iran 246+
Egypt 107+
Iraq 45+
Saudi Arabia 27
United States 17
Somalia 11+
Yemen 5+
Oman 4
India 4
Botswana 3
South Sudan 2+
Bangladesh 2
Qatar 1
Taiwan 1
Vietnam Unknown
North Korea Unknown

Lovely company we're in.

[Ulysses]

Look, I'm mostly just holding up an alternate side of the conversation, but that doesn't make my logic wrong. People argue against the death penalty usually on some kind of moral grounds, of killing people being inherently wrong. OK fine. But if you really believe killing people is wrong, you can't go saying "well, not here, or not there." On the other hand, there are a lot of reasons to do away with the (sometimes) death (maybe) penalty laws we have now.

Now . . . Dylan Root?

His name is not Dylan Root. It's Dylann Roof. If you've going to kill him, at least get his name right.

And no, I don't support his execution. What he did was horrible. But there are other ways to deal with a sicko like him. Non-lethal anti-psychotic medications, for example. Along with life in prison.