For Vets and anyone who knows a vet

[Doug1943]

If you have access to other forums that Vets might read, please re-post this.

Highly Sophisticated Scam Targeting Veterans

Veterans beware! There is a new scam sweeping the country targeting U.S. veterans. This one involves the use of new telephonic technology, and a well-orchestrated cast of scam artists who mimic Veterans Affairs (VA) culture. Unfortunately, the scam has already ripped off thousands of veterans – don’t be the next victim.

The scam uses sophisticated telephonic technology that imitates VA operating signatures, thus, giving the impression via caller ID that the veteran is receiving a telephone call from the VA. Most veterans will see the following on their call ID system: “Department of Veterans Affairs, 1-800-827-1000.” The second part of the scam involves the scam artists pretending to be VA personnel. The scam artists are using scripted material to mimic the culture of VA personnel by implementing processes that would be used when a veteran contacts the VA. Most veterans are getting the following:

Scam artists: “Hello, Mr. Smith, this is John from the VA, I’m contacting you because the VA is reaching out to veterans to ensure the accuracy of their records with us. Do you have a minute to go over your records at the VA?

Veteran: Yes!

Scam artists: “Before I get started, thank you for your service.”

Veteran: “No problem.”

Scam artists: “Mr. Smith, can you verify what branch of the military you served?”

Veteran: “The Army.”

Scam artists: “Ok. Thank you. Can you verify your current address?”

Veteran: “555 Main St., Topeka, Kansas.”

Scam artists: “Ok. Great! Can you verify your birthday?”

Veteran: “July 10, 1947.” Scam artists: “Please verify your last compensation payment amount.”

At this point, if the veteran provides information and gives an amount, the scam artists are using another script that eventually leads to asking the veteran to verify their social security number. If the veteran refuses to give information, the scam artists inform the veteran that he/she needs to be transferred to the Finance department. Then, the scam continues as:

Scam artists: “This is Mike in the Finance department. How are you Mr. Smith?”

Veteran: “I’m ok.”

Scam artists: “As John mentioned to you, we [VA] are reaching out to veterans to ensure the accuracy of their information on file with the VA. We want to make sure nothing happens to your current or future payments from the VA. Is that ok with you Mr. Smith?”

Veteran: “Sure.”

Scam artists: “Mr. Smith can you verify your social security number on file with the VA?”

Veteran: 123-12-1234

Scam artists: “Great! Thank you. Also, can you verify the credit card we have on file for you?”

Veteran: “I don’t have a credit card on file with the VA. Do I need to have a credit card on file?”

Scam artists: “Yes! To make sure any incidentals are covered. In 99.9% of the cases, the credit card is never used, and if the credit card is used it will never exceed $10. Public law, and VA policy makes it necessary we have a credit card on file just in case something comes up that is not covered by the VA. So, what card would you like to keep on file? We take Visa, MasterCard, American Express or Discover. Which would you like to use?”

-o-o-O-o-o-
If you get a call from the “VA” and the scenario resembles anything close to the narrative above, terminate the telephone call. It is likely you are being scammed. Remember, the VA will never ask you for personally identifiable information over the phone. Never!

[Source: http://www.veteranprograms.com/scams5.html | August 30, 2019 ++]

[O Really]

Doesn't matter who they claim to be - don't give out that type of information. Why anyone would believe a request for "verification" means you have to tell them the information is beyond me. Even if you have reason to believe the call is legit, don't give them anything they don't already have.

[neoplacebo]

Thanks for the warning; I'm a veteran....former 4.0 squid and I never deal with the VA. If I die I might take them up on their free burial site but I prefer to be cremated and have my ashes tossed into the seas I used to sail. My cousin did that. The VA stood by at parade rest.

[Doug1943]

I think the people who post on forums are probably more sophisticated than the average person.

I get several phone calls a day, almost all from India, from various scammers, and it's clearly a profitable operation for them. You might think an anonymous phone call from someone with a heavy Indian accent, calling himself 'Keith' or 'John', would alert anyone with a brain to its phoniness, but not so. A prominent political columnist was recently caught by these people, and had the stones to admit it in one of his columns.

The problem is, I think, in liberal democracies we tend to trust 'authority' -- I know this is changing, especially in the US, but we're talking of the habits of lifetimes here, and I expect that most of the victims are people whose basic social attitudes were formed in the 1950s and 60s, when things were different.

Anyway, apparently this scam is very sophisticated, and vets are being caught out by it, so it's worth circulating. It might even be worth printing out, and posting (or mailing to be posted) at supermarkets and similar places, and certainly at the local VFW and American Legion meeting halls.

[Leo Lyons]

Veterans beware!

Scam artists: “Hello, Mr. Smith, this is John from the VA, I’m contacting you because the VA is reaching out to veterans to ensure the accuracy of their records with us. Do you have a minute to go over your records at the VA?

Veteran: Yes!
NEVER say YES to ANY question asked by someone you're unsure of. Example: "Can you hear me?" I always say "I can hear you."

Scam artists: “Before I get started, thank you for your service.”
Veteran: “No problem.”

Scam artists: “Mr. Smith, can you verify what branch of the military you served?”
Scam artists: “Ok. Thank you. Can you verify your current address?”
Scam artists: “Ok. Great! Can you verify your birthday?”
Scam artists: “Please verify your last compensation payment amount.”
Scam artists: “Mr. Smith can you verify your social security number on file with the VA?”
I would ask "What do you have on record?"

Scam artists: “Great! Thank you. Also, can you verify the credit card we have on file for you?”
Veteran: “I don’t have a credit card on file with the VA. Do I need to have a credit card on file?”
Red flag right there. The VA doesn't require you have a credit card on file; for any reason.

If you get a call from the “VA” and the scenario resembles anything close to the narrative above, terminate the telephone call. It is likely you are being scammed. Remember, the VA will never ask you for personally identifiable information over the phone. Never!

[Source: http://www.veteranprograms.com/scams5.html | August 30, 2019 ++]

Good post, Doug1943!

[Doug1943]

Thank you for the kind comment. Please reproduce this anywhere you can.

[Leo Lyons]

Thank you for the kind comment. Please reproduce this anywhere you can.

[billy.pilgrim]

Dougie, as I told you at lnf. You have to be way stupid to give out your social security number over the phone. Every living person in this country has heard this a thousand times.

On 2nd thought, could be that those who couldn't get a job on their own may need additional reminding.

[Leo Lyons]

Dougie, as I told you at lnf. You have to be way stupid to give out your social security number over the phone. Every living person in this country has heard this a thousand times.

On 2nd thought, could be that those who couldn't get a job on their own may need additional reminding.

Like those with dementia? Like the elderly who are fooled by the official-sounding voices on the call, and whose caller ID shows a VA phone number?
You're really brilliant b.p., really brilliant. People with way more smarts than you are duped by scammers every day. Scammers aren't stupid, they know exactly what they're doing.

[billy.pilgrim]

Dougie, as I told you at lnf. You have to be way stupid to give out your social security number over the phone. Every living person in this country has heard this a thousand times.

On 2nd thought, could be that those who couldn't get a job on their own may need additional reminding.

Like those with dementia? Like the elderly who are fooled by the official-sounding voices on the call, and whose caller ID shows a VA phone number?
You're really brilliant b.p., really brilliant. People with way more smarts than you are duped by scammers every day. Scammers aren't stupid, they know exactly what they're doing.

Got it leo, let's all run out and educate those with dementia.

They stole thousands from my mother - Alzheimers.
She was very educated.


Laws would work. Have leos do their jobs and find these crooks. But that would take away from harassing kids for smoking pot or being black.

[Leo Lyons]

Dougie, as I told you at lnf. You have to be way stupid to give out your social security number over the phone. Every living person in this country has heard this a thousand times.
On 2nd thought, could be that those who couldn't get a job on their own may need additional reminding.

Got it leo, let's all run out and educate those with dementia.
They stole thousands from my mother - Alzheimers.
She was very educated.
Laws would work. Have leos do their jobs and find these crooks. But that would take away from harassing kids for smoking pot or being black.

Ironic you bashed Doug1943's and my posts, then turned around telling us about your mother (RIP) losing everything.
Who do you think you impressed? Not me.

[O Really]

There are a lot of scams going around. Sure, it's good to warn a potentially affected group about one directed toward them, but really, they all work about the same way and can almost always be avoided by fairly simple practices. Don't answer the phone if you don't know who's calling. Don't give out any personal information. Don't click on attachment to emails you aren't sure who sent, and don't enter any personal information into emails you receive. As Neo says - don't say "yes" for anything. Better to teach your family - young and old - to deal with any potential scam, not only the specific ones that go around. There are other standard things, too, like that the police isn't going to take you off to jail if you don't pay a "fine" with a gift card; the IRS doesn't threaten you by phone. Practically nothing in legal process is ever going to happen over the phone, and anything that might be handled over the phone can be verified by requesting a delivered document and/or a number that can be verified for a return call.

[billy.pilgrim]

Dougie, as I told you at lnf. You have to be way stupid to give out your social security number over the phone. Every living person in this country has heard this a thousand times.
On 2nd thought, could be that those who couldn't get a job on their own may need additional reminding.

Got it leo, let's all run out and educate those with dementia.
They stole thousands from my mother - Alzheimers.
She was very educated.
Laws would work. Have leos do their jobs and find these crooks. But that would take away from harassing kids for smoking pot or being black.

Ironic you bashed Doug1943's and my posts, then turned around telling us about your mother (RIP) losing everything.
Who do you think you impressed? Not me.

I didn't say that she lost everything and I've never tried to impress you. Too bad you missed my point. I'll go slow for you


S h e h a d A L Z H E I M E R S. E x p l a i n i n g t h i n g s t o h e r. w o r k e d g r e a t u n t I l s h e f o r g o t 14 s e c o n d s l a t e r.

[Vrede too]

... They stole thousands from my mother - Alzheimers....

I'm sorry about your mother. That must have been hard on you.

At least she had an excuse. I'm not sure what Doug1943 and Leo Lyons' excuses are.

If you have access to other forums that Vets might read, please re-post this.

Highly Sophisticated Scam Targeting Veterans

...

[Source: http://www.veteranprograms.com/scams5.html | August 30, 2019 ++]

Sigh, your own link says "June 30, 2016 ". It also reads "Tartgeting" in the headline. Misspelling, especially THREE YEAR OLD misspelling is a sure sign that something is hinky. Their About Our USVCP page names no people and lists no physical address, two more big red flags. However, it does say: "By submitting this form, you are consenting to receive marketing emails from: U.S. Veteran Compensation Programs ..."
Aha.

Either you are scamming us for some childish reason, or you got scammed by whoever told you "August 30, 2019". If the latter, you should have thought to check YOUR OWN link. Who knows, maybe the Scam Targeting Veterans is not only 3 years old but never really existed at all. If the former, shame on you for exploiting veterans.

I'm not even sure the organization is real. Googling "U.S. Veteran Compensation Programs" doesn't turn up anything that isn't self-referential, no external endorsements. Searching the VA website for:
"U.S. Veteran Compensation Programs"
"veteranprograms.com"
"Highly Sophisticated Scam Targeting Veterans"

... turns up NOTHING. Odd, don't you think? Ironic, it seems that you may have failed Rules #1-3 for Scams - Verify! Verify! Verify!

Until PROVEN otherwise, I suggest you treat this like it's a chain letter and STOP spreading it. Then, if you've posted it to other sites the honorable thing to do would be to return and let folks know that the whole thing is dubious.

[billy.pilgrim]

That made me laugh. Should we warn them that the jesus shoe thing is a scam.

[billy.pilgrim]

... They stole thousands from my mother - Alzheimers....

I'm sorry about your mother. That must have been hard on you.

At least she had an excuse. I'm not sure what Doug1943 and Leo Lyons' excuses are.
.

We lost her long before she died. Alzheimers really makes a mess out of people.

I remember our efforts, early on before we knew, to keep away the scammers.
Some were easy. They would send checks for 2 or 3 thousand dollars. I accidentally caught the first one (happened to be there), I explained what it was, threw it in the trash and 2 days later got a call from the bank. Mom had gotten in out of the trash, driven to the bank and tried to deposit it. Thank you bank.
Others were harder to stop.
Educating the person with dementia isn't the answer.

Called the company that was listed on the check. They said that it had been happening a lot and asked me to send them a copy of the check.

Called the cops, they didn't care.

[neoplacebo]

I think the people who post on forums are probably more sophisticated than the average person.

I get several phone calls a day, almost all from India, from various scammers, and it's clearly a profitable operation for them. You might think an anonymous phone call from someone with a heavy Indian accent, calling himself 'Keith' or 'John', would alert anyone with a brain to its phoniness, but not so. A prominent political columnist was recently caught by these people, and had the stones to admit it in one of his columns.

The problem is, I think, in liberal democracies we tend to trust 'authority' -- I know this is changing, especially in the US, but we're talking of the habits of lifetimes here, and I expect that most of the victims are people whose basic social attitudes were formed in the 1950s and 60s, when things were different.

Anyway, apparently this scam is very sophisticated, and vets are being caught out by it, so it's worth circulating. It might even be worth printing out, and posting (or mailing to be posted) at supermarkets and similar places, and certainly at the local VFW and American Legion meeting halls.

I do not concur with your assertion that people who post on forums are more sophisticated than the average person; after all, when you consider how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of all those people are stupider than the average, well. it tends to cull down the herd.

I hardly ever answer a call if I don't recognize the number that is calling me. But should I find myself in such a predicament with an Indian named John, I would immediately begin to exhibit faux ignorance, like "I no speek Eeenglish, I not bee understanding" and then hang up. Or maybe I'd just lay the phone down and walk off to fool around with dangerous and illegal substances and just let the guy keep talking.

As for liberal democratic societies tending to place trust in "authority" I strongly deny (like trump says Putin did) this. I can only speak for myself but from an early age, I have always had a fine distaste, distrust, suspicion, and contempt for authority of any kind. I know a lot of other people who have this same outlook to greater or lesser degrees. I consider speed limit signs to be merely suggestions, always take time to rip those tags off mattresses and pillows that say "do not remove this tag under penalty of law," and typically seek out "no smoking" areas to light up.

In any event, thanks for alerting us to this veteran scam but I feel that none of us would be receptive to it should we be targeted. And if I do happen to be the target of it, I will stammer out my "no speeeek Eeeenglish" spiel to the guy on the phone and ask to speeek to his boss so I could engage in my proclivity to abuse authority to him personally in the finest and most graphic way the English language will allow.

[neoplacebo]

That made me laugh. Should we warn them that the jesus shoe thing is a scam.

Nah, those were all sold out in minutes; let them wait for the next scam I say.

[Vrede too]

That made me laugh. Should we warn them that the jesus shoe thing is a scam.

Nah, those were all sold out in minutes; let them wait for the next scam I say.

I've never fallen for an online or phone scam, and those holy water sneakers sound squishy. However, I am a bit attracted to the idea of magic Mormon underwear . . .

It's already teatime in England and we haven't heard from Doug1943. Funny that. Nothing from Leo Lyons, either. I find it comforting to know that LEOs are so easily duped by scams about scams.

Full disclosure: I've been the victim of in-person con men twice. One was a short change artist when I was a teen working a drugstore lunch counter. Damn, they're really good at getting you twisted up. That one cost the business $10 or $20. They weren't mad, the asst mgr witnessed at least part of it and chose not to intervene.

Then, there was a middle-aged hitchhiker with a convoluted story about a stolen Canadian passport, holiday weekend, fear of shelters, etc. I never fully believed him, but he managed to keep a coherent story going without any fatal holes in it for 2 hours! When I dropped him off I decided that the experience was entertaining even if a lie, and bought him one night's cheap motel room (which he probably cashed in as soon as I left) and gave him $20 for food. Months later I read about his arrest. He'd been at it for a long time. I was almost a little proud to be part of regional history.

[Doug1943]

... They stole thousands from my mother - Alzheimers....

I'm sorry about your mother. That must have been hard on you.

At least she had an excuse. I'm not sure what Doug1943 and Leo Lyons' excuses are.

If you have access to other forums that Vets might read, please re-post this.

Highly Sophisticated Scam Targeting Veterans

...

[Source: http://www.veteranprograms.com/scams5.html | August 30, 2019 ++]

Sigh, your own link says "June 30, 2016 ". It also reads "Tartgeting" in the headline. Misspelling, especially THREE YEAR OLD misspelling is a sure sign that something is hinky. Their About Our USVCP page names no people and lists no physical address, two more big red flags. However, it does say: "By submitting this form, you are consenting to receive marketing emails from: U.S. Veteran Compensation Programs ..."
Aha.

Either you are scamming us for some childish reason, or you got scammed by whoever told you "August 30, 2019". If the latter, you should have thought to check YOUR OWN link. Who knows, maybe the Scam Targeting Veterans is not only 3 years old but never really existed at all. If the former, shame on you for exploiting veterans.

I'm not even sure the organization is real. Googling "U.S. Veteran Compensation Programs" doesn't turn up anything that isn't self-referential, no external endorsements. Searching the VA website for:
"U.S. Veteran Compensation Programs"
"veteranprograms.com"
"Highly Sophisticated Scam Targeting Veterans"

... turns up NOTHING. Odd, don't you think? Ironic, it seems that you may have failed Rules #1-3 for Scams - Verify! Verify! Verify!

Until PROVEN otherwise, I suggest you treat this like it's a chain letter and STOP spreading it. Then, if you've posted it to other sites the honorable thing to do would be to return and let folks know that the whole thing is dubious.

I don't really see the logic here. At worst, it's an out-of-date warning, but everthing about it otherwise seems legit to me. How could warning veterans about such calls be a bad thing? However, you do have a point in that I should have spotted that 2016 date, so it's not (necessarily) a CURRENT scam.

But I think you're implying that the purpose of this warning is to get unwary vets to click on the link at the bottom, where they will go to the original site and ... what? Do you have any reason to believe this organization is phoney? It's definitely a commercial site, like websites which advise young people on how to pass college-entrance exams and apply for college, ie not a charity and not a government site, but a quick look at the site doesn't seem to show anything sinister ... and lots of their information looks useful. But if you have reason to think otherwise, for sure tell me! And I'll go to the other places I've posted this and warn everyone about this site. So what's your evidence?

One reason I have to think this is legit is that it was sent to me by a veteran friend of mine who is very active in veterans' affairs, and who hates the phonies who try to exploit vets. For instance, here's a link from a post I got from him a year or so ago:
https://publicintegrity.org/2018/04/18/ ... ns-charity

As for the misspelling. So what? It's true that when you get emails with very poor English and lots of misspelling, you can be certain that they're scams. But I don't think one misspelling means much, although it certainly doesn't reflect well on what is presumably a commercial site. (And while looking at that site, I found another misspelling.) There is a wide distribution of education among people, and there are many very decent people who are poor spellers. So we ought to be very tactful when we spot a misspelling. I personally never call someone out on a misspelling in online forums, although I might spell the misspelled word correctly if I quote them.

But ... I think you are right that if I'm going to include their website address, I should have checked up on them a bit. (Actually, I should have just deleted it, as it serves no particular purpose.) Doing a WhoIS search shows that their domain has been registered for twelve years. All the scams I've ever checked, and I've had a lot of experience with them, have had websites that were just a few months old, at most. So that would indicate that they're legitimate, (if you consider a commercial organization legitimate). However, it would be better now to take the time to update the various scam approaches -- doing some web searches I've found other ways that vets can be targetted.

But then the question becomes, is it legitimate, or worthwhile, to warn veterans about scams? Are there particular scams targetting vets?
There certainly are, some of them within the last year. My own web search revealed the following links:

https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/ ... erans.html
Scams Targeting Veterans

https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/ ... arity.html
Veterans Charity Scam

https://www.oit.va.gov/news/article/?re ... nating-ogc
Bulletin: Scam Calls Impersonating the VA Office of General Counsel

https://www.fcc.gov/veterans-targeted-benefits-scams
Veterans Targeted in Benefits Scams

https://www.oit.va.gov/news/article/?re ... nating-ogc
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/ ... 945c817b89

It's easy to tell people just to hang up on such calls, but I know that many people will still fall for a plausible line. So I think it's worthwhile to actually spell out some of the dialogue that the scammers use. And if I were in charge of the education system, I'd include an hour in social studies class (or whatever the equivalent is today) to let the kids hear recordings of some of the typical scam calls they're likely to receive.

So... to summarize. Yes, I should have checked that website. It's a commercial site, probably legit but no reason to include it. Otherwise, this message, or, better yet, a synthesis of it and more recent warnings such as those from the AARP and VA itself, is definitely worth posting in forums that vets, or people in touch with them, are likely to read.

As for the suggestion that I am trying to scam anyone myself, it's really beneath contempt.