Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Cowboy
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Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-a ... 14248.html

Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

William Astore
06/10/2013

The expression "bread and circuses" captures a certain cynical political view that the masses can be kept happy with fast food (think Cartman's "Cheesy Poofs" on South Park) and faster entertainment (NASCAR races, NFL games, and the like). In the Roman Empire, it was bread and chariot races and gladiatorial games that filled the belly and distracted the mind, allowing emperors to rule as they saw fit.

There's truth to the view that people can be kept tractable as long as you fill their bellies and give them violent spectacles to fill their free time. Heck, Americans are meekly compliant even when their government invades their privacy and spies upon them. But there's a deeper, more ominous, sense to bread and circuses that is rarely mentioned in American discourse. It was pointed out to me by Amy Scanlon.

In her words:
Basically ancient Rome was a society that completely revolved around war, and where compassion was considered a vice rather than a virtue... [The] Romans saw gladiatorial contests not as a form of decadence but as a cure for decadence. And decadence to the Romans had little to do with sexual behavior or lack of a decent work ethic, but a lack of military-style honor and soldierly virtues. To a Roman compassion was a detestable vice, which was considered both decadent and feminine. Watching people and animals slaughtered brutally [in the arena] was seen as a way to keep the civilian population from this 'weakness' because they didn't see combat...
Scanlon then provocatively asks, "Could our society be sliding towards those Roman attitudes in a bizarre sort of way?"

I often think that America suffers from an empathy gap. We are simply not encouraged to put ourselves in the place of others.

For example, how many Americans fancy the idea of a foreign power operating drones in our sovereign skies, launching missiles at gun-toting Americans suspected by this foreign power of being "militants"? Yet we operate drones in places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Yemen, killing suspected militants with total impunity. Even when innocent women and children are killed, our emperors and our media don't encourage us to have compassion for them. We are basically told to think of them as collateral damage, regrettable, perhaps, but otherwise inconsequential.

Certainly, our military in the last two decades has put new stress on American troops as "warriors" and "warfighters," a view more consistent with the hardened professionals of the Roman Empire than with the citizen-soldiers of the Roman Republic. Without thinking too much about it, we've come to see our troops as an imperial guard, ever active on the ramparts of our empire.
War, meanwhile, is seen not as a last course of defense but as a first course to preempt the evil designs of the many hidden enemies of America. Our troops, therefore, are our protectors, our heroes, the defenders of America, even though that "defense" treats the entire globe as a potential killing field.


Scanlon's view of the Roman use of bread and circuses -- as a way to kill compassion to ensure the brutalization of Roman civilians and thus their compliance (or at least their complacency) vis-à-vis Imperial expansion and domestic policing -- is powerful and sobering.

At the same time, the Obama administration is increasingly couching violent military intervention in humanitarian terms. Deploying troops and tipping wars in our favor is done in the name of defeating petty tyrants (e.g. Khadafy in Libya; Is Assad of Syria next?). Think of it as our latest expression of "compassion."

All things considered, perhaps our new national motto should be: When in America, do as the Roman Empire would do. Eat to your fill of food and violence, cheer on the warfighters, and dismiss expressions of doubt or dismay about military interventions and drone killings as "feminine" and "weak."

At least we can applaud ourselves that we no longer torture and kill animals in the arena like the Romans did. See how civilized we've become?

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Ombudsman
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Cowboy wrote:
At the same time, the Obama administration is increasingly couching violent military intervention in humanitarian terms. Deploying troops and tipping wars in our favor is done in the name of defeating petty tyrants (e.g. Khadafy in Libya; Is Assad of Syria next?). Think of it as our latest expression of "compassion."
Seems like odd commentary coming from a retired military man. He tips his hand towards his political bias by singling out Obama on the issue though.

He got one thing right. NASCAR is just a modern, tamer version of ancient chariot races. Amazing that anyone is entertained by that.
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Cowboy
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Ombudsman wrote:Seems like odd commentary coming from a retired military man. He tips his hand towards his political bias by singling out Obama on the issue though.
If he criticized Bush, would that be political bias also?
He is just stating the obvious, and Obama is the current POTUS.
I don't see it as political bias.
He got one thing right. NASCAR is just a modern, tamer version of ancient chariot races. Amazing that anyone is entertained by that.
Say what you will, but I watch every NASCAR race I can on TV.

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Wneglia
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

Unread post by Wneglia »

Ombudsman wrote:
Cowboy wrote:
At the same time, the Obama administration is increasingly couching violent military intervention in humanitarian terms. Deploying troops and tipping wars in our favor is done in the name of defeating petty tyrants (e.g. Khadafy in Libya; Is Assad of Syria next?). Think of it as our latest expression of "compassion."
Seems like odd commentary coming from a retired military man. He tips his hand towards his political bias by singling out Obama on the issue though.

He got one thing right. NASCAR is just a modern, tamer version of ancient chariot races. Amazing that anyone is entertained by that.
Tamer Version?

:mrgreen:

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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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If his criticism is of military action used to over throw leaders of other countries, why would he not mention Bush? The bottom line is it's a poorly presented argument. He spends the entire article talking about Rome and then finishes with a two sentence assertion that he doesn't back up.
At the same time, the Obama administration is increasingly couching violent military intervention in humanitarian terms. Deploying troops and tipping wars in our favor is done in the name of defeating petty tyrants (e.g. Khadafy in Libya; Is Assad of Syria next?). Think of it as our latest expression of "compassion."
I don't understand how people fall for this kind of rhetoric any more than I understand why people are entertained by watching cars drive around in a circle.
Wing nuts. Not just for breakfast anymore.

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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

Unread post by Ombudsman »

Wneglia wrote:
Ombudsman wrote:
Cowboy wrote:
At the same time, the Obama administration is increasingly couching violent military intervention in humanitarian terms. Deploying troops and tipping wars in our favor is done in the name of defeating petty tyrants (e.g. Khadafy in Libya; Is Assad of Syria next?). Think of it as our latest expression of "compassion."
Seems like odd commentary coming from a retired military man. He tips his hand towards his political bias by singling out Obama on the issue though.

He got one thing right. NASCAR is just a modern, tamer version of ancient chariot races. Amazing that anyone is entertained by that.
Tamer Version?

:mrgreen:
Than chariot races? Yep.
Wing nuts. Not just for breakfast anymore.

Cowboy
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Ombudsman wrote:
Wneglia wrote:
Ombudsman wrote:He got one thing right. NASCAR is just a modern, tamer version of ancient chariot races. Amazing that anyone is entertained by that.
Tamer Version?

:mrgreen:
Than chariot races? Yep.
Chariot Race
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p_r6bKMqiE

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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Out of curiosity, Ombudsman, how does someone who doesn't watch car racing know so much about it, and where do you watch chariot races so you can compare them as to which is "tamer"?

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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Ombudsman wrote:If his criticism is of military action used to over throw leaders of other countries, why would he not mention Bush? The bottom line is it's a poorly presented argument.
Why waste space stating the obvious?
Is there anyone who is not aware of what Bush did?
He spends the entire article talking about Rome and then finishes with a two sentence assertion that he doesn't back up.
Let's take a look at the last two sentences....

"At least we can applaud ourselves that we no longer torture and kill animals in the arena like the Romans did. See how civilized we've become?"

Why does it need backing up?
It is self evident.

When is the last time there was a bull fight in this country?

When is the last time you saw wild animals loosed on condemned prisoners?

When was the last we crucified people or burnt them alive in the arena to entertain the crowds?
At the same time, the Obama administration is increasingly couching violent military intervention in humanitarian terms. Deploying troops and tipping wars in our favor is done in the name of defeating petty tyrants (e.g. Khadafy in Libya; Is Assad of Syria next?). Think of it as our latest expression of "compassion."
I don't understand how people fall for this kind of rhetoric any more than I understand why people are entertained by watching cars drive around in a circle.
What do you disagree with and why?

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Ombudsman
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Cowboy wrote:Out of curiosity, Ombudsman, how does someone who doesn't watch car racing know so much about it, and where do you watch chariot races so you can compare them as to which is "tamer"?
How often does someone die in a NASCAR race? Did chariots have seat belts and roll bars?
Wing nuts. Not just for breakfast anymore.

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Wneglia
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

Unread post by Wneglia »

Cowboy wrote:
Ombudsman wrote:
Wneglia wrote:
Ombudsman wrote:He got one thing right. NASCAR is just a modern, tamer version of ancient chariot races. Amazing that anyone is entertained by that.
Tamer Version?

:mrgreen:
Than chariot races? Yep.
Chariot Race
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p_r6bKMqiE
At least hollywood's version. One thing for sure, however, chariot races were much more lucrative than NASCAR, with one charioteer earning the equivalent of $15 billion in current dollars, over his 24 year career. Eat your heart out, Dale Earnhardt!
:mrgreen:

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Ombudsman
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

Unread post by Ombudsman »

Cowboy wrote:
Ombudsman wrote:If his criticism is of military action used to over throw leaders of other countries, why would he not mention Bush? The bottom line is it's a poorly presented argument.
Why waste space stating the obvious?
Is there anyone who is not aware of what Bush did?
He spends the entire article talking about Rome and then finishes with a two sentence assertion that he doesn't back up.
Let's take a look at the last two sentences....

"At least we can applaud ourselves that we no longer torture and kill animals in the arena like the Romans did. See how civilized we've become?"

Why does it need backing up?
It is self evident.

When is the last time there was a bull fight in this country?

When is the last time you saw wild animals loosed on condemned prisoners?

When was the last we crucified people or burnt them alive in the arena to entertain the crowds?

I was referring to the two sentences near the end (that I quoted) where he finally gets around to making his assertion. The rest of the oped is about trying to make a case that Rome and the US are similar because we like the same kinds of entertainment. The article is just long winded way of bashing Obama with no real support for it.
Wing nuts. Not just for breakfast anymore.

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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Ombudsman wrote:I was referring to the two sentences near the end (that I quoted) where he finally gets around to making his assertion. The rest of the oped is about trying to make a case that Rome and the US are similar because we like the same kinds of entertainment. The article is just long winded way of bashing Obama with no real support for it.
Is that what you thought it was all about?
Entertainment?
You missed the whole point of the article and it was not "Obama bashing".

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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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The point of the article is to bash Obama. A retired lieutenant in the Air Force is not bashing militarism. If he was there are countless examples from his tenure he could have used.
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Whoever is POTUS is also Commander in Chief.

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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Vrede wrote:
He did: "the masses...Americans are meekly compliant...our society...America suffers from an empathy gap...Americans...emperors (note the plural)...we...We...our military...we've come to see our troops as an imperial guard...Our troops...our...we...See how civilized we've become?"
What? Those aren't examples. Those are generalizations. One specific person is mentioned. Guess who it is?

This is what amazes me about some on the far left. The teabaggers have figured out that after Obama's success with Bin Laden, the Somali Pirates, etc. that they can no longer claim he's weak on defense. So instead they've decided to claim he's as much a warmonger as his predecessor in hopes of dividing his base. The HuffPos and Alternet readers fall right into this little game. Do you really think for a second Cowboy posted this article because he's opposed to military action? He posted it for one reason only.
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Ombudsman wrote:Do you really think for a second Cowboy posted this article because he's opposed to military action? He posted it for one reason only.
Do tell.
And just what might that reason be?

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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

Unread post by Dryer Vent »

Good article, CB, but I can't figure out what I agree with. Violence certainly is an issue in this country. It will probably get worse with the growing gap between the haves and have nots...or have somes. As for NASCAR...when I think about it, all I see is fat people with bad tattoos and beer cozies.

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O Really
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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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I thought it was a good article. Since some like to draw "Big Brother" comparisons, it is of note that the US follows closely the idea that for government to stay in power, there must be national enemies. And during the time a country is an enemy, they have "always" been the enemy. As to NASCAR, despite some spectacular wrecks, it is not all that violent because - due to a lot of safety effort - hardly anyone gets seriously injured. Sort of like Kenny never staying killed. MMA on the other hand - that's a lot like the gladiators.

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Re: Bread and Circuses in Rome and America

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Dryer Vent wrote:As for NASCAR...when I think about it, all I see is fat people with bad tattoos and beer cozies.
You obviously haven't seen Danica Patrick.
http://www.mensfitness.com/women/20-hot ... ca-patrick

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