Christmas for Atheists

[bannination]

Nor the date, that was stolen from Pagan and other Winter Solstice celebrations.

I am no historian, and have not researched this topic, but here is an article that disputes your argument

Interesting, but seriously lacking sources.

[billy.pilgrim]

Nor the date, that was stolen from Pagan and other Winter Solstice celebrations.

I am no historian, and have not researched this topic, but here is an article that disputes your argument

makes sense to me

since we know jesus died on 3/25/ and as everybody knows all jewish prophets die on the same day the seed was sprouted - therefore, simple math proves that god went slumming for some young strange on 3/25/ and jesus (and christmas) were born quite exactly 9 months later on 12/25

see - proof positive that christmas was started by christians on 12/25 without any influence of any other cultures

[billy.pilgrim]

Nor the date, that was stolen from Pagan and other Winter Solstice celebrations.

I am no historian, and have not researched this topic, but here is an article that disputes your argument

Okay, thanks. If true, it's Jewish and/or based on the myth that "great prophets died on the same date as either their birth or conception" and the "impossible" determination that he was crucified on March 25. I was just adding to O Really's list of non-Christian origin stuff.

I like Christmas. Since we have no clue as to when Jesus was born, I have no problem with celebrating it close to the Winter solstice.

Works for me. Happy Winter Holidays all!

merry christmas to all

[Bungalow Bill]

Looking at all the dating back and forths just makes the whole thing seem more
farcical than before, if that's possible.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

[rstrong]

It's almost time for children to learn a valuable lesson: Santa loves rich kids more.

[Wneglia]

Merry Christmas to all as well.

I just ran across this extremely interesting interview with Richard Dawkins on whether religion is a force of good or evil. The interview was conducted by an extremely bright Muslim journalist, Mehdi Hasan, who was very well prepared.

[Wneglia]

Merry Christmas to all as well.

I just ran across this extremely interesting interview with Richard Dawkins on whether religion is a force of good or evil. The interview was conducted by an extremely bright Muslim journalist, Mehdi Hasan, who was very well prepared.

...Adolf Hitler was an atheist...

Disputed, and the evidence I've seen leans the other way.

I'm not interested enough to watch for 50 minutes. What's your takeaway from the interview?

Religious extremism is responsible for much of the world's problems, but mainstream religion provides a moral framework that advances society.

[billy.pilgrim]

Merry Christmas to all as well.

I just ran across this extremely interesting interview with Richard Dawkins on whether religion is a force of good or evil. The interview was conducted by an extremely bright Muslim journalist, Mehdi Hasan, who was very well prepared.

...Adolf Hitler was an atheist...

Disputed, and the evidence I've seen leans the other way.

I'm not interested enough to watch for 50 minutes. What's your takeaway from the interview?

Religious extremism is responsible for much of the world's problems, but mainstream religion provides a moral framework that advances society.

almost right


having a mainstream moral framework advanced by strong individual moral understanding advances a society.

dependence on myths and fairies and goat herder scribblings does offer something to those who need a crutch - problem is , too often the witch doctors or popes or whoever at nothing more than power seeking liars

[rstrong]

...Adolf Hitler was an atheist...

Disputed, and the evidence I've seen leans the other way.

Not just disputed, but easily disproven by a great many of Hitler's statements and policies.

Wikipedia: Religious views of Adolf Hitler

It's obvious that he was against *organized* religion. In other words the Catholic church. But he still made statements like "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith" and ""We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

[mike]

To all my atheist friends and all my Christian friends, I have only this to say:

I pray you have a blessed Christmas surrounded by those you love and those who love you.
May the New Year bring joy to you.

Merry Christmas, all!

[rstrong]

(From xkcd)

[mike]

Gotta love xkcd! Thanks, rstrong.

From George Takei:

From a friend: "My partner is Jewish and we celebrate both holiday traditions. At Christmas we set up a Nativity scene, but all the figurines look skeptical."

[The Piper]

Gotta love xkcd! Thanks, rstrong.

From George Takei:

From a friend: "My partner is Jewish and we celebrate both holiday traditions. At Christmas we set up a Nativity scene, but all the figurines look skeptical."

A message for mike....

Our lives are the only Bible some people will ever read.
This is a really scary example of how much people watch us as Christians, and will put us to the test!
Always be on guard -- and remember --
You carry the name of Christ on your shoulders when you call yourself 'Christian.'

Watch your thoughts ; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits..
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

[rstrong]

Our lives are the only Bible some people will ever read.
This is a really scary example of how much people watch us as Christians, and will put us to the test!
Always be on guard -- and remember --
You carry the name of Christ on your shoulders when you call yourself 'Christian.'

America just had an election where the candidates most known for "carrying the name of Christ on their shoulders" (Bachmann, Cain, Perry) all demanded that America bring back torture. This after the previous administration - the one who packaged itself as the party of Christianity - turned the nation into a torture state.

During the twentieth century, white, God-fearing, predominately Christian Europe produced Lenin, Stalin, Franco, Hitler and Mussolini. We had WWI, WWII, the holocaust and the nuking of two cities - with clerics and padres on BOTH the German and Allied sides assuring their respective troops that God thought it was peachy-keen. We had the holocaust - the deliberate targeting of one religion by a great many Christians from France to the Ukraine. A hundred years ago it was perfectly normal for Christian countries to invade and occupy the rest of the world - "spreading Christianity" was a major justification - and even commit genocide against those who disagreed.

Carry the name of Christ on your soldiers. It serves as a warning to others. Those of us who aren't religious will stick to ethics, not morals.

Watch your thoughts ; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits..
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

Good words for everyone, regardless of religion.

[mike]

Gotta love xkcd! Thanks, rstrong.

From George Takei:

From a friend: "My partner is Jewish and we celebrate both holiday traditions. At Christmas we set up a Nativity scene, but all the figurines look skeptical."

A message for mike....

Our lives are the only Bible some people will ever read.
This is a really scary example of how much people watch us as Christians, and will put us to the test!
Always be on guard -- and remember --
You carry the name of Christ on your shoulders when you call yourself 'Christian.'

Watch your thoughts ; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits..
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

Tell you what, Piper, if you ever see me acting "un-Christian" and demeaning the name of Christ, let me know. The message of the Bible is that we are all imperfect and in need of a Savior. The message of my life is the same.

I am quite secure in my beliefs. I understand the landscape quite well; ridicule and judgment are part of the territory.

I won't judge you based on your beliefs and you are in no position to judge me based on mine.

That being said, I agree with the message ... remember, you're preaching to the choir when it comes to me, Piper.

[Bungalow Bill]

Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits..
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

Sounds like a sampler that Joseph Goebbels might
have had on his office wall.

[billy.pilgrim]

Lao Tzu
“Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habit. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.”

His association with the Tao Te Ching has led him to be traditionally considered the founder of Taoism (pronounced as "Daoism"). He is also revered as a deity in most religious forms of the Taoist religion, which often refers to Laozi as Taishang Laojun, or "One of the Three Pure Ones". Lao Tzu translated literally from Chinese means "old master" or "old one", and is generally considered honorific.

According to Chinese tradition, Lao Tzu lived in the 6th century BCE.

[mike]

Indeed, Billy, there is little (if any) in this world that people might construe as "new and profound" which does not have its roots in what is old.

Thanks!

BTW, love the new avatar(s)!

Go, Irish!

[DooHickey]

Looks as though Mike got called out. I see where Piper's coming from. A christian thanking an atheist for ridicule of christian 'holy communion' would raise some red flags anywhere in downtown christiandom. I believe Mr.B. was the one who continually said that what you call yourself and what you actually are is two different things; or something about knowing the difference between apples and pears, etc. Many of Mike's posts don't sound like something you'd expect from a man of the cloth-follower. Maybe he subscribes to a different type of christian following?
(where is that old P.I.A. Mr.B. anyway?)

[DooHickey]

DooHickey, your view of "proper" Christianity is very narrow. Along with the often hateful greed, vengeance and bigotry version there's a rich tradition of caring, progressive Christianity..... You should get out more.

You may have a point there; about getting out more, that is; and my view of Christianity is not what I see in many of Mike's comments. What I saw in Piper's comment was chastisement of Mike, who proclaims to be a Christian, thinking ridicule of a holy ritual was amusing, and Mike's thanking rstrong, an atheist, for posting the ridicule. I have to agree with Piper; and I don't think Piper was "judging" Mike.

I don't quite believe Mike has risen to the ranks of "MLK, Jr., SCLC, abolitionists, liberation theology, inclusive communities, pacifism, etc." Maybe Mike should look at himself in the mirror and 'reflect' on what he sees.