Latin America

[Vrede too]

The Noble curse.

https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/2008037732828737748

What an arrogant, desperate and vindictive prick! Nothing noble about it.

[supesalemgr2]

It was an arrest of an indicted (Biden administration) individual.

What's the normal process for an international indictment?

Don't bother answering, you'll just do your usual feckless divert and run away routine.

I don't know the legal process for an international indictment, do you? This was an indictment in a federal court.

[O Really]

Most people thought Trump was, in his usual tasteless manner, exaggerating about being able to shoot somebody on Madison Ave and not lose any voters. This seems about as close to that as one might expect to get, and sure enough, he's got people defending him all over. At this point, I won't be surprised if he really does try to shoot somebody - probably a news person - on the street from the window of his armored car.

[GoCubsGo]

Lol

Congrats America,
Your about to get screwed with your pants on again.

[O Really]

If you review just the things Maduro has done since 2013, offering no judgement either way, and compare the list to actions taken or attempted by Trump, you'll find a terrifying similarity.

[O Really]

I haven't seen anything about it, but does Venezuela not have an army, or WTF were they doing while their President* was being kidnapped?

And could we hire some of their security people to guard Trump?

[GoCubsGo]

I haven't seen anything about it, but does Venezuela not have an army, or WTF were they doing while their President* was being kidnapped?

And could we hire some of their security people to guard Trump?

Kinda wondering about that, didn't they have a security detail at the least?

Admittedly, I haven't looked at the details or "after action reports " or whatever they're calling it.

[O Really]

Dunno why they dragged along "his wife" I suppose they thought up a new charge like "married to an alleged drug runner" or something. But if she really is complicit and charged, shouldn't she be referred to by her name, like a real defendant?

[supesalemgr2]

I haven't seen anything about it, but does Venezuela not have an army, or WTF were they doing while their President* was being kidnapped?

And could we hire some of their security people to guard Trump?

The country has an army but reports indicate Maduro was protected by Cuban troops. That tells us much about the Venezelan army.

[supesalemgr2]

Dunno why they dragged along "his wife" I suppose they thought up a new charge like "married to an alleged drug runner" or something. But if she really is complicit and charged, shouldn't she be referred to by her name, like a real defendant?

She had been previously indicted as well. It was a family business. I have heard her name, but I don't remember it.

[O Really]

I think there's a fair chance Maduro will never get to trial, but if he does and it's with a jury, there's a fair chance he'll walk. Rights to speedy trial have been waived, so the government can basically shuffle feet and let them rot. All Trump snark aside, I really do not see the difference in this and the oppressive criminal actions taken by other people we usually think of as the "bad guys."

[Vrede too]

I think there's a fair chance Maduro will never get to trial, but if he does and it's with a jury, there's a fair chance he'll walk. Rights to speedy trial have been waived, so the government can basically shuffle feet and let them rot. All Trump snark aside, I really do not see the difference in this and the oppressive criminal actions taken by other people we usually think of as the "bad guys."

Yep, this was an external military coup, not an "arrest".

[Vrede too]

Dunno why they dragged along "his wife" I suppose they thought up a new charge like "married to an alleged drug runner" or something. But if she really is complicit and charged, shouldn't she be referred to by her name, like a real defendant?

I'm hearing her name mentioned in the media, Cilia Flores, and it must be in the charges, too, since she appeared in court.

[supesalemgr2]

I think there's a fair chance Maduro will never get to trial, but if he does and it's with a jury, there's a fair chance he'll walk. Rights to speedy trial have been waived, so the government can basically shuffle feet and let them rot. All Trump snark aside, I really do not see the difference in this and the oppressive criminal actions taken by other people we usually think of as the "bad guys."

Are you suggesting Maduro is innocent and should walk? I do not disagree a NY jury might not convict.

[Vrede too]

I haven't seen anything about it, but does Venezuela not have an army, or WTF were they doing while their President* was being kidnapped?

And could we hire some of their security people to guard Trump?

Kinda wondering about that, didn't they have a security detail at the least?

Admittedly, I haven't looked at the details or "after action reports " or whatever they're calling it.

There was ineffective resistance - some chopper pilots were injured. I'm thinking there must be a lot of dead in and around the residence. 60 Cuban troops were reportedly killed.

[O Really]

I think there's a fair chance Maduro will never get to trial, but if he does and it's with a jury, there's a fair chance he'll walk. Rights to speedy trial have been waived, so the government can basically shuffle feet and let them rot. All Trump snark aside, I really do not see the difference in this and the oppressive criminal actions taken by other people we usually think of as the "bad guys."

Are you suggesting Maduro is innocent and should walk? I do not disagree a NY jury might not convict.

"Innocent" isn't the same as "not guilty." I don't doubt he, like his fellow dictators and wannabes, is a bad guy. But the question is, can the government prove beyond reasonable doubt that he actually did what he's charged with, and can the government run the railroad with sufficient skill and competence to avoid getting their case tossed on a "technicality" or giving the defence a get out of jail card. So far, they're not off to an auspicious start.

Prosecuting a kidnapped president of a sovereign country isn't a place where you can be sloppy, make up stuff, or just spout lies and expect everyone to go along. You can buy judges, but jurors tend to have their own minds.

F'rinstance:

President Donald Trump’s Department of Justice quietly removed references to a fictional drug cartel led by Nicolás Maduro from its newest indictment of the kidnapped Venezuelan president.

The New York Times reported Monday that the new indictment of Maduro and others on charges related to drug trafficking omitted a crucial element of the original charges: the criminal organization that Maduro supposedly ran, Cartel de los Soles.

The original indictment filed against Maduro in March 2020 in the Southern District of New York described the Cartel de los Soles as a “drug trafficking organization comprised of high-ranking officials” that operated between 1999 and 2020.

“Under the leadership of Maduro Moros and others, the Cartel de Los Soles sought not only to enrich its members and enhance their power, but also to ‘flood’ the United States with cocaine,” the indictment said.

But apparently, Cartel de los Soles isn’t a real organization at all. It’s a slang term invented by the Venezuelan media to describe corruption, according to the Times. The supposed cartel’s inclusion in the original indictment would be as if someone tried Trump for leading “Trumpworld” as a criminal organization.

Opps.

[supesalemgr2]

I think there's a fair chance Maduro will never get to trial, but if he does and it's with a jury, there's a fair chance he'll walk. Rights to speedy trial have been waived, so the government can basically shuffle feet and let them rot. All Trump snark aside, I really do not see the difference in this and the oppressive criminal actions taken by other people we usually think of as the "bad guys."

Are you suggesting Maduro is innocent and should walk? I do not disagree a NY jury might not convict.

"Innocent" isn't the same as "not guilty." I don't doubt he, like his fellow dictators and wannabes, is a bad guy. But the question is, can the government prove beyond reasonable doubt that he actually did what he's charged with, and can the government run the railroad with sufficient skill and competence to avoid getting their case tossed on a "technicality" or giving the defence a get out of jail card. So far, they're not off to an auspicious start.

Prosecuting a kidnapped president of a sovereign country isn't a place where you can be sloppy, make up stuff, or just spout lies and expect everyone to go along. You can buy judges, but jurors tend to have their own minds.

F'rinstance:

President Donald Trump’s Department of Justice quietly removed references to a fictional drug cartel led by Nicolás Maduro from its newest indictment of the kidnapped Venezuelan president.

The New York Times reported Monday that the new indictment of Maduro and others on charges related to drug trafficking omitted a crucial element of the original charges: the criminal organization that Maduro supposedly ran, Cartel de los Soles.

The original indictment filed against Maduro in March 2020 in the Southern District of New York described the Cartel de los Soles as a “drug trafficking organization comprised of high-ranking officials” that operated between 1999 and 2020.

“Under the leadership of Maduro Moros and others, the Cartel de Los Soles sought not only to enrich its members and enhance their power, but also to ‘flood’ the United States with cocaine,” the indictment said.

But apparently, Cartel de los Soles isn’t a real organization at all. It’s a slang term invented by the Venezuelan media to describe corruption, according to the Times. The supposed cartel’s inclusion in the original indictment would be as if someone tried Trump for leading “Trumpworld” as a criminal organization.

Opps.

Thanks for the clarification.

Since the indictments were put together by the Biden administration I do not doubt there may be some holes.

[O Really]

Thanks for the clarification.

Since the indictments were put together by the Biden administration I do not doubt there may be some holes.
[/quote]

Oh it's fun to blame Biden for anything, but you might want to check your facts there. The original indictment was in 2020 during Trump's first term. But it doesn't matter, this is a different (new) indictment but even if it were the one from 5 years ago, it would be triple-checked by any competent prosecutor to assure it's still valid. F'rinstance, the original accused him of fentanyl trafficking, which turned out not to be a significant issue out of Venezuela.

All's I'm saying is that there are a lot of opportunities to screw up a case like this, and I'm thinking that if the prosecution pursues the Trump line instead of whatever the provable facts are, that they'll step on their own dicks on the regular.

[neoplacebo]

I think there's a fair chance Maduro will never get to trial, but if he does and it's with a jury, there's a fair chance he'll walk. Rights to speedy trial have been waived, so the government can basically shuffle feet and let them rot. All Trump snark aside, I really do not see the difference in this and the oppressive criminal actions taken by other people we usually think of as the "bad guys."

Are you suggesting Maduro is innocent and should walk? I do not disagree a NY jury might not convict.

Then what's your explanation for trump pardoning the Honduran president, who was convicted and serving a long prison sentence for the exact same thing trump says Maduro was doing? Tell me why that guy was pardoned by trump. I figure he (trump) got a big payout for doing it. And I'll bet that trump will pardon Maduro about a year after he's convicted and sentenced for another big payout. He'll say it's a gesture of compassion and claim the guy has mended his ways. You and the rest of the cult will swallow it whole, won't you? But I would be curious to know what you think about the pardon given a convicted drug smuggler. Is it Biden's fault? Obama's fault?

[GoCubsGo]

Yup.