Obama murders 8.6 times as many kids as Adam Lanza

[Wneglia]

Hey, Hey, Barack! What Do You Say? How Many Kids Have You Killed Today?

[Wneglia]

When Biden came to Asheville a friend deployed a "What About The Drones?" banner inside. He was quickly hustled out by security but not charged. If Mitten is elected and the program continues (we all know it will), are you up for doing the same with me at the first nearby Mitten or Ryan event we can, Wneglia? Two whitehaired medicos like us doing so will make for a great image and story.

There's an offer on the table, Wneglia. You just gonna post about it instead?

Let's take one step at a time. First let's see if Romney gets elected, then see if he continues Obama's policy.

Revised offer: No matter who is elected, if the program continues (we all know it will) are you up for doing the same with me at the first appropriate event we can, Wneglia? Two grayhaired medicos like us doing so will make for a great image and story. I'd even come to Columbia.

CON and LIB -

What About The Drones?

It just ain't healthcare.

http://www.blueridgedebate.com/viewtopi ... =kill+list

So? Is it really about the "8.6 times as many kids" or is it just about Obama?

If I thought it might do some good, I would accept your offer. I don't think Obama, Holder, or the rest of their acolytes gives a rats ass about what two greyhaired medicos think. Plus, it might give them an excuse to come after my guns.

[rstrong]

Tell President Obama: Assassinating Americans without due process is wrong.

The petition reads:

"The secret U.S. government assassination program that targets American citizens abroad and kills them without judicial review is not 'legal,' 'ethical,' or 'wise' as the White House claimed. It is wrong, and it should be stopped."

Does that mean that it's OK to assassinate non-Americans abroad without judicial review?

If so, than is it OK for other countries to do the same? To kill an American citizen without judicial review as long as it's done outside their own country? Say, on a street in America?

What of kidnapping and torture, by allied countries? The US kidnapped at least 100 people from EU countries in the last decade. It was peachy-keen to kidnap and torture someone merely transiting a US airport on a connecting flight to Canada, on a vague suspicion (later disproven) that he might have a connection to terrorism. Is there any objection to allied countries snatching people off a US street and shipping them to another country for extra-judicial treatment?

[Wneglia]

Does that mean that it's OK to assassinate non-Americans abroad without judicial review?

"without judicial review?" - I think so. Whether it's "OK" as a matter of international law, morality, or our own interests is a different question.

If so, than is it OK for other countries to do the same? To kill an American citizen without judicial review as long as it's done outside their own country? Say, on a street in America?

We are indeed blazing that perilous trail.

What of kidnapping and torture, by allied countries? The US kidnapped at least 100 people from EU countries in the last decade. It was peachy-keen to kidnap and torture someone merely transiting a US airport on a connecting flight to Canada, on a vague suspicion (later disproven) that he might have a connection to terrorism. Is there any objection to allied countries snatching people off a US street and shipping them to another country for extra-judicial treatment?

Yes, because we are the baddest bully around and there would be consequences. Plus, I think the citizens of most of our allies object to that kind of behavior more strongly than Americans do.

One Fourth of World's Countries Have Participated in Rendition and Torture
including RStrong's Canada. It's not like Obama is alone in this.

[rstrong]

including RStrong's Canada. It's not like Obama is alone in this.

If you refer to the Maher Arar case, no, Canada did not participate in rendition and torture.

Canada provided information to American intelligence officials when Arar came under suspicion. Full Stop. It did not follow that those officials would kidnap Arar, ship him off to another country and have him tortured. There was no reason to believe - at the time - that America would do so. Such behavior was only expected from tin-pot dictatorships.

And even then, Canada gave an apology and compensation to Arar. And like several other allies, Canada put rules in place to prevent sharing of information with American intelligence if there was any chance that it would happen again.

Only in hindsight do we know that several extraordinary rendition flights refueled in Gander on the way to the US. Again, at the time it was unreasonable to suspect that the flights contained people kidnapped off the streets of Europe on their way to torture and a decade or more of unlawful confinement.

[Wneglia]

One Fourth of World's Countries Have Participated in Rendition and Torture
including RStrong's Canada. It's not like Obama is alone in this.

Thanks, shameful.
Who you callin' shameful?

Obama has repudiated direct torture but is still practicing rendition to nations that torture. And, as been reported very recently, we continue to facilitate torture by the Afghan government.

How many of those other nations, the ones that are allies like Canada, are still doing rendition and/or torture? Not that I think their governments are necessarily better but I think their people may have been more repulsed when the ugly truths were revealed.

About my question? Is your opposition to drones really about the "8.6 times as many kids" or is it just about Obama?

It is about the collateral damage caused by the drones. I am not even opposed to targeted assassinations of terrorists like Bin Laden, but think they should be carried out with a Seal Team or CIA operatives.

[rstrong]

I am not even opposed to targeted assassinations of terrorists like Bin Laden, but think they should be carried out with a Seal Team or CIA operatives.

Pakistan is opening an amusement park and zoo in the same town where Bin Laden was hiding. The zoo sounds cool, but I'll bet you won't be able to see the seals until it's too late.

[rstrong]

...I'll bet you won't be able to see the seals until it's too late.

Speaking of which:

Shark-eating seal among rare and stunning scenes documented off South Africa

Last week was the first time a seal has ever been recorded eating a hagfish, a lamprey-like creature so slimy other predators spit them out. It was spotted by a teenager in the Ukraine, watching an 800-kilometre network of cameras and instruments on the ocean floor off Vancouver Island connected to the internet.

[Stinger]

It is about the collateral damage caused by the drones. I am not even opposed to targeted assassinations of terrorists like Bin Laden, but think they should be carried out with a Seal Team or CIA operatives.

The number of innocents killed is relatively low, much lower than the number of innocents we killed in Iraq. Do you advocate not killing Al Qaeda leaders? Did you make similar posts about "collateral damage" in Iraq?

[Stinger]

I'd add my concerns over any such violations of sovereignty, our world image, the precedent we're setting, and the numbers of future opponents being created.

I don't think anything tops Abu Ghraib for recruiting new enemies of the United States.

[Stinger]

I'd add my concerns over any such violations of sovereignty, our world image, the precedent we're setting, and the numbers of future opponents being created.

I don't think anything tops Abu Ghraib for recruiting new enemies of the United States.

Worldwide you may be correct. In the countries targeted by drones I'm not so sure.

In areas where drone strikes have killed innocent civilians, I'm 100% wrong.

[rstrong]

From the Yale Daily News:

School of Medicine psychiatry professor Charles Morgan told the News in January that he hopes to propose the creation of a center at the Medical School in cooperation with the U.S. Army Special Operations Forces called the U.S. Special Operations Command Center of Excellence for Operational Neuroscience, which would teach soldiers interview techniques. Yale’s statement said the School of Medicine has not formally proposed opening the center, and denied media reports that the training facility will teach interrogation tactics and that the research will take advantage of minority populations in New Haven.

Well that’s not at all disturbing then.

[rstrong]

Tell President Obama: Assassinating Americans without due process is wrong.

The petition reads:

"The secret U.S. government assassination program that targets American citizens abroad and kills them without judicial review is not 'legal,' 'ethical,' or 'wise' as the White House claimed. It is wrong, and it should be stopped."

Does that mean that it's OK to assassinate non-Americans abroad without judicial review?

If so, than is it OK for other countries to do the same? To kill an American citizen without judicial review as long as it's done outside their own country? Say, on a street in America?

What of kidnapping and torture, by allied countries? The US kidnapped at least 100 people from EU countries in the last decade. It was peachy-keen to kidnap and torture someone merely transiting a US airport on a connecting flight to Canada, on a vague suspicion (later disproven) that he might have a connection to terrorism. Is there any objection to allied countries snatching people off a US street and shipping them to another country for extra-judicial treatment?

There we go. A former CIA station chief, one of those convicted by an Italian court of the kidnapping and torture of a terror suspect, has been captured in Panama.

BBC: Ex-CIA Milan chief held in Panama over cleric abduction

After four years of detention - including various depredations, torture by beating and electric shocks to the genitals, rape, and losing hearing in one ear - an Egyptian court ruled that the suspect's imprisonment was "unfounded."

Any bets on whether Panama caves in to US pressure?

[rstrong]

Well, that* didn't last long.

BBC: Kidnap case ex-CIA agent Robert Lady 'en route to US'


*The possibility of the rule of law applying to American officials

[neoplacebo]

Probably got high power lawyers to make the warrant "...issued by the previous government..." invalid. Hell, Italy has changed government like 50 times since World War II, thus creating the opportunity to raise vague legal issues. I wonder what a former station chief was doing out there in the hinterlands anyway.....just being a body snatcher, I guess.

[neoplacebo]

As for how many kids were killed by whom, as the initial theme presents, I feel we should give Nixon a shout out. I bet he even had people snatched off the street if the truth were known. He had a lot of Nazis working for him; Haldeman, Erlichmann, Kliendenst, Strahan, Colson, Magruder....lots of them there Vietnam kids got bombed and burned up. It wasn't as impersonal as a drone, but you didn't get too much warning. But Colson found Jesus in prison, so I guess that's something.....

[billy.pilgrim]

One Fourth of World's Countries Have Participated in Rendition and Torture
including RStrong's Canada. It's not like Obama is alone in this.

Thanks, shameful.
Who you callin' shameful?

Obama has repudiated direct torture but is still practicing rendition to nations that torture. And, as been reported very recently, we continue to facilitate torture by the Afghan government.

How many of those other nations, the ones that are allies like Canada, are still doing rendition and/or torture? Not that I think their governments are necessarily better but I think their people may have been more repulsed when the ugly truths were revealed.

About my question? Is your opposition to drones really about the "8.6 times as many kids" or is it just about Obama?

It is about the collateral damage caused by the drones. I am not even opposed to targeted assassinations of terrorists like Bin Laden, but think they should be carried out with a Seal Team or CIA operatives.

wigglie, I didn't hear you complaining when lil bush killed 500,000 +/- innocent people in iraq

[billy.pilgrim]

Fwiw, I don't think Wneglia joined BRN until after Shrub was gone and his clear and longstanding opposition to drone policy does set him apart from many con hawks. He did answer my question by saying it's not about Obama.

just curious if he will comment about the half millon killed in iraq